A Challenge To Everything You Think You Know

[Leo Gura]

@stevegan928 Lol, the joys of eclecticism

Quote

Wikipedia:

"Eclecticism is a conceptual approach that does not hold rigidly to a single paradigm or set of assumptions, but instead draws upon multiple theories, styles, or ideas to gain complementary insights into a subject, or applies different theories in particular cases. However, this is often without conventions or rules dictating how or which theories were combined."

"It can sometimes seem inelegant or lacking in simplicity, and eclectics are sometimes criticized for lack of consistency in their thinking. It is, however, common in many fields of study."

"Eclecticism was first recorded to have been practiced by a group of ancient Greek and Roman philosophers who attached themselves to no real system, but selected from existing philosophical beliefs those doctrines that seemed most reasonable to them. Out of this collected material they constructed their new system of philosophy. The term comes from the Greek ἐκλεκτικός (eklektikos), literally 'choosing the best', and that from ἐκλεκτός (eklektos), 'picked out, select'. Well known eclectics in Greek philosophy were the Stoics Panaetius and Posidonius, and the New Academics Carneades and Philo of Larissa. Among the Romans, Cicero was thoroughly eclectic, as he united the Peripatetic, Stoic, and New Academic doctrines. Other eclectics included Varro and Seneca."

AKA being a self-help slut

[hundreth]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@hundreth So now here is an important intellectual point:

It's possible to hold partial perspectives.

It's possible, for example, to read this entire series of books, vehemently disagree with parts of it. But still get personal growth value out of it, AND hold the entire thing as just another partial perspective out of many. No one perspective being true.

That would be a great test of Stage Yellow Spiral Dynamics thinking.

Stage Orange would be the way you're doing it: look for one contradiction and throw the whole thing in the trash bin.

The reason I brought this book to you guys is not because I think it to be all true.

What's interesting to me, is that Ra's descriptions of Absolute Infinity are DEAD ON based on my direct experience. So if nothing else, you could learn about that. But also Ra's discussions of more practical matters like meditation, service to others vs service to self, chakras, etc can all be super-useful in your growth.

And perhaps most useful of all is that this book can be used as an antidote against your materialist, naive realist paradigm of reality. I'll tell you right now, your current paradigm of what reality is, is more wrong than Ra's. And what's worse is, you're so stuck in it, you can't break out even if you wanted to. I've personally found this book a great way to dislodge my unfounded beliefs about reality. consciousness, life, afterlife, reincarnation, evolution, UFOs, the purpose of life, etc -- leaving me in a nice state of not-knowing.

The problem is, you don't yet realize how much of your "scientific" knowledge is just groundless belief in hearsay. So falling back to that default position by vehemently disbelieving this book doesn't advance you much. You're still stuck in a web of belief -- one you feel is "actually real" -- which is in a way the worst place to be.

"The better the model, the bigger the problem."

I've personally grown from this book, even though I find it hard to believe in some of the more far-fetched things in it, like Big Foot. I will actually be able to glean insights from this book and shoot videos about the insights, without ever mentioning Ra, and people watching will say, "OMG! That was amazingly helpful. Thank you for changing my life."

Sometimes you gotta be pragmatic more than ideological. Growing up is a messy business. And sometimes you should be happy to get whatever scraps you can scavenge.

So in a nutshell, be a self-help vulture

Fair enough, although this would be less about open mindedness and more about integration. For example, I could experience personal growth from reading Harry Potter books if I'm tuned into the right lessons.

I don't know @Leo Gura - it's possible you've read so much self-help material that this is what's left for you, scavenging for whatever scraps are left over in the form of allegorical tales. Given where I'm at, I feel like there's so much quality material out there. Being more selective over the material I ingest is in my best interest for personal growth. 

I personally know many New Age truth seekers who lack a filter around the information they perceive to be true. They ingest everything, and the result is an even further warped sense of reality from where they started. 

To me it seems like you've started out on this path as a rationalist minded skeptic. This is your nature. You've discovered the limitations and have adopted a viewpoint that is almost a form of self hatred. You're now rebounding very far into the opposite direction. I imagine you'll find your balance soon.

I will admit I have been stuck in a "stage Orange" mindset for some time. Your videos have helped me open up and see the limitations there. I thank you for that. I've also had profound psychedelic experiences which have given me glimpses. At the same time, I will not fight my nature. My logical abilities are a gift, and undoubtably given to "me" for a reason to balance out this dualistic illusion. Not all of us are meant to run around believing fairy tales. Embrace your purpose.

Edited December 18, 2016 by hundreth

[Leo Gura]

@hundreth If you keep growing, all your "logic" will melt away.

You will be like Jeff Goldblum in The Fly, slowly but surely transforming into a New Age hippy. Much to your own horror.

Turns out it's not so bad after all Love and consciousness make logic look like a rusty unicycle.

And then you'll become like a New Age vampire, lurking in the shadows of the self-help world. But happy as fuck about it.

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Maorice said:

So when it comes to "distant healing" and "contact healing" for example of course scientific methods, reasoning and so on apply there. You can "measure" results at least to a certain degree, you can set up statistics, you can compare with other methods, you can try to understand how, in which way, it works, if it works. There are many arguments against contact healing and distant healing. You can check their validity.

Not everything can be proven, by looking at things through a scientific perspective. The fundamental beliefs of science(things have to be repeatable, rational and constant) are all just arbitrary beliefs(and we have constructed reality around them, and that's what has created the world we pretty much live in today). What evidence is there to back up the validity of scientific evidence or science itself? What proof do we have in repeatability, being constant and rationality? What evidence is there to back up that thing that proves scientific evidence is valid? and so on.

distant healing is one of these areas. Its as provable using science as consciousness is. 

For example, how would you prove that someone is enlightened using science? How would you prove that god is what the mystics say he is using science?

Like what you said, it depends on the answer being asked. Science can prove concepts to be true, because science is a concept itself (collect like terms). but not empirical observations. And healing in that context is not a concept that is based on the 3 commandments of science  no is it based on the 10 commandments of christianity.  

[Hunter Arrington]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@hundreth So now here is an important intellectual point:

It's possible to hold partial perspectives.

It's possible, for example, to read this entire series of books, vehemently disagree with parts of it, but still get personal growth value out of it, AND hold the entire thing as just another partial perspective out of many. No one perspective being true.

That would be a great test of Stage Yellow Spiral Dynamics thinking.

Stage Orange would be the way you're doing it: look for one contradiction and throw the whole thing in the trash bin.

The reason I brought this book to you guys is not because I think it to be all true.

What's interesting to me, is that Ra's descriptions of Absolute Infinity are DEAD ON based on my direct experience. So if nothing else, you could learn about that. But also Ra's discussions of more practical matters like meditation, service to others vs service to self, chakras, etc can all be super-useful in your growth.

And perhaps most useful of all is that this book can be used as an antidote against your materialist, naive realist paradigm of reality. I'll tell you this much: your current paradigm of what reality is, is more wrong than Ra's. And what's worse is, you're so stuck in it, you can't break out even if you wanted to. I've personally found this book a great way to dislodge my unfounded beliefs about reality, consciousness, life, afterlife, reincarnation, evolution, good vs evil, free will, UFOs, the purpose of life, etc -- leaving me in a nice state of not-knowing.

The problem is, you don't yet realize how much of your "scientific" knowledge is just groundless belief in hearsay. So falling back to that default position by vehemently disbelieving this book doesn't advance you much. You're still stuck in a web of belief -- one you feel is "actually real" -- which is in a way the worst place to be.

"The better the model, the bigger the problem."

I've personally grown from this book, even though I find it hard to believe in some of the more far-fetched things in it, like Big Foot. I will actually be able to glean insights from this book and shoot videos about the insights, without ever mentioning Ra, and people watching will say, "OMG! That was amazingly helpful. Thank you for changing my life."

Sometimes you gotta be pragmatic more than ideological. Growing up is a messy business. And sometimes you should be happy to get whatever scraps you can scavenge.

So in a nutshell, be a self-help vulture

Wait...Bigfoot was the only thing I believed!!! . . . ; ) 

[electroBeam]

@Leo Gura What do you personally do to test if something is invalid or valid? If as you say there are traps with being skeptical too. I'm guessing you just trust your intuition, but maybe not. 

[Leo Gura]

@electroBeam That is an excellent question. I intend to shoot a video about that.

What I've learned from my study of epistemology is that the best approach is:

• Digest as many diverse sources as humanly possible (being sure to include books, videos, and face-to-face contact)
• Seek diverse life experience through travel, psychedelics, relationships, business, etc.
• Then throw all of it away as you contemplate reality via direct experience.
• Then behold, as your understanding of reality blossoms, as your subconscious mind integrates everything automatically, producing the biggest picture possible.

Unfortunately I see many people very resistant to this approach. They like to pick one thing and only do that while poo-pooing everything else. And I'm not surprised by their lack of understanding of reality, despite whatever attainments they've made. Their ignorance is obvious when I then interact with them. They lack holistic understanding.

[hundreth]

I have an open mindedness test for you all:

If you find yourself wondering "Why would I waste 35 minutes of my life watching this?" - just remember, there must be a valuable lesson here for us. Otherwise, why would Ra waste his time talking to us? 

[Leo Gura]

@hundreth False equivalency.

Don't conflate openmindedness with stupidity, or lack of discernment.

Just because one does research and is willing to accept some deadends, doesn't mean one is open to researching every irrelevant thing. By that logic, research couldn't happen, as it would get lost in a never-ending sea of possible research targets.

It helps to actually study how scientific method works. Philosophy of science is very useful here.

[Be Yourself]

Hey Leo,

Since you posted about this book it very much reminded me of channeling which involves communicating with extra terrestrial beings. Maybe you already know but if not I would recommend to search about "Bashar".  You'll also need to have a good level of open mindedness here. But remember, it's not about the messenger it's about the message itself!

[Leo Gura]

@Valentin I'm well aware of Bashar. Fun guy. Useful advice, regardless of what you may think of his, shall we say, style or existential claims. Fits great with my life purpose course actually. He basically shows you how to follow your passion.

[hundreth]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@hundreth False equivalency.

Don't conflate openmindedness with stupidity, or lack of discernment.

Just because one does research and is willing to accept some deadends, doesn't mean one is open to researching every irrelevant thing. By that logic, research couldn't happen.

Obviously, I'm being facetious. There is some truth there though. We are here in this illusory state having the human experience. There's very little which exemplifies the human experience more than Jersey Shore. Many people resonate with this content on a very emotional level. In some ways, we should be open minded to it. We too, must represent absolute stupidity to a being of Ra's omniscience.

Not trying to be a dick @Leo Gura. Much love. 

 

[Be Yourself]

@Leo Gura Great, awesome you're aware of him.  And I'm actually in the middle of your life purpose course. Amazing stuff! Now i can see how everything slowly fits together.  

[electroBeam]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@electroBeam That is an excellent question. I intend to shoot a video about that.

What I've learned from my study of epistemology is that the best approach is:

• Digest as many diverse sources as humanly possible (being sure to include books, videos, and face-to-face contact)
• Seek diverse life experience through travel, psychedelics, relationships, business, etc.
• Then throw all of it away as you contemplate reality via direct experience.
• Then behold, as your understanding of reality blossoms, as your subconscious mind integrates everything automatically, producing the biggest picture possible.

Unfortunately I see many people very resistant to this approach. They like to pick one thing and only do that while poo-pooing everything else. And I'm not surprised by their lack of understanding of reality, despite whatever attainments they've made. Their ignorance is obvious when I then interact with them. They lack holistic understanding.

So even if your life purpose is personal development and enlightenment, you found it useful to study very different fields like business, because you can guage what is useful or real and what isn't. And then hope that, that makes you capable to avoid the traps of radical skepticism and open mindedness to the point that your brain falls out.

I think the question here isn't whether some knowledge is real or not; leave that to contemplation, but whether something is useful advice to take or not. Because if we get all nit picky about the validity and realism of a piece of knowledge, we can forget its usefulness to us. 

[Leo Gura]

@electroBeam Yes, basically.

As Ra says somewhere in Book I (and I'm paraphrasing): the fastest way for humans to grow is through interaction with other humans. This is why the most conscious entities on Earth are highly social chimps. Interdependence spurs conscious development. A tree doesn't need to push itself to be highly-conscious. Humans do, or we kill ourselves.

This rang very true for me. Relationships grow you A LOT. Business grows you A LOT. Pickup grows you A LOT. Being a leader of a community grows you A LOT.

The trick is to engage all these with the INTENT and PRIME DIRECTIVE to raise one's consciousness. Most people in business or in pickup or in politics do NOT do that, so they waste tons of growth opportunity.

Could you imagine starting a business whose main function was to raise YOUR consciousness vs making you money? Now that would be radically counter-intuitive. But also a genius strategic move.

[electroBeam]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@electroBeam Yes, basically.

As Ra says somewhere in Book I (and I'm paraphrasing): the fastest way for humans to grow is through interaction with other humans. This is why the most conscious entities on Earth are highly social chimps. Interdependence spurs conscious development. A tree doesn't need to push itself to be highly-conscious. Humans do, or we kill ourselves.

This rang very true for me. Relationships grow you A LOT. Business grows you A LOT. Pickup grows you A LOT. Being a leader of a community grows you A LOT.

The trick is to engage all these with the INTENT and PRIME DIRECTIVE to raise one's consciousness. Most people in business or in pickup or in politics do NOT do that, so they waste tons of growth opportunity.

Could you imagine starting a business whose main function was to raise YOUR consciousness vs making you money? Now that would be radically counter-intuitive. But also genius.

Yeah, I've studied epistomology extensively too, and covering a wide range of life experiences really does seem to be the only way of figuring out what roads lead you to the path you are looking for. There is no step by step instructions that work for every case, even science and philosophy. 

And do you use scientific or philosophical principles to filter out information that is within the wide range you are covering? 

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

And do you use scientific or philosophical principles to filter out information that is within the wide range you are covering?

Sure, up to their limit. They do have limits, which are worth knowing.

Here's a decent book discussing the limits of scientific method, written by a scientist and philosopher:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_Method

His core point: Science cannot have a method. Any science claiming to have a method is not real science. Because you cannot know ahead of time what you don't know. EVER! And the history of science clearly bears this out.

I take the lessons of history and apply them to my epistemic process. Which means I have to hold everything loosely.

Study of history is also extremely important. Or you will blunder.

[ULFBERHT]

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE@stevegan928

3 hours ago, stevegan928 said:

 

 

[Mercy]

Thanks Leo!!

[ZeN]

Quote

There are many upon your plane who have a random hole or gateway in their spirit energy field, sometimes created by the ingestion of chemicals such as, what this instrument would call LSD, who are able, randomly and without control, to tap into energy sources. They may or may not be entities who wish to serve. The purpose of carefully and consciously opening this channel is to serve in a more dependable way, in a more commonplace or usual way, as seen by the distortion complex of the healer. To others there may appear to be miracles. To the one who has carefully opened the door to intelligent infinity this is ordinary; this is commonplace; this is as it should be. The life experience becomes somewhat transformed. The great work goes on.PP 97

This is an interesting paragraph I found which mentioned the area of psychedelics. It would appear Ra thinks using these kinds of chemicals affects our energy fields and possibly not only in a positive way. 

How would you interpret Ra's message in regards to psychedelics? Either way I have found the part which I have read fascinating and a lot of it resonates with me. Although I graduated my masters degree (cum laude) this year, I have been exponentially more open-minded towards these topics and I have found myself down an infinite myterious rabbithole...