A Challenge To Everything You Think You Know

[Hunter Arrington]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@kurt I'm happy to be proven wrong. Because I'm not loyal to any position.

I was proven wrong about psychedelics for example. So I changed my views 180 degrees and become a psychedelic advocate.

It's never been my goal to create a bulletproof ideological castle. That's not what Actualized.org is about. It's about helping you grow and explore consciousness for yourself by sharing ideas and resources that you probably wouldn't have otherwise discovered on your own given the state of mainstream culture and business.

As a researcher, it doesn't bother me if I do research that sometimes leads to a dead end. Cause I understand that's the cost of doing research.

Then again, sometimes the research hits the motherlode, like with 5-meo, and some other technologies which I will be sharing in the future. I've been surprised at the "magic bullets" I've been able to find. In the end, by doing all this research, I will be able to help many more people raise their consciousness than conventionally possible.

Good shit. 

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, kurt said:

Are you wre that you have misunderstood "consciousness" from the very get go?  Your language patterns reveal a lot.  Consciousness cannot be "raised".  Mind knowledge can be expanded, but thoughts and perspectives are not "consciousness", they are as dead as matter itself.  Thoughts are "empty" of self nature, meaning that Self does not reside in thought.

A) This is trivial because when one speaks of "raising" consciousness, it's a linguistic device. Not a literal existential claim. It's a way of speaking to help people understand certain things about this work.

Again, you assume I'm naive about these things because you like to nitpick rather than seeking to be inclusive and hearing the intent of the communication. This is what happens when you let the left side of your brain become a lawyer for the ego. It can nitpick anything anyone says. You could take the words of Buddha himself and make him look like an ignorant devil if you so desire.

B) All nonduality teaching and communication is METAPHORICAL. As it must be. You cannot speak of enlightenment non-metaphorically. EVER! So whether you choose to speak of it in religious metaphor or scientific rationalist metaphor, it's all metaphor requiring decoding.

C) The self resides in EVERYTHING. Thought is an aspect of self. EVERYTHING is an aspect of self. Atman is Brahman, Brahman is Atman. Your conceptions of nonduality are excluding duality, which is an immature conceptual of nonduality. No masterful nondual teacher rants against duality, mundane life, education, mastery, or other people teaching nonduality using alternative styles. Because he understands the game.

I could choose to teach nonduality by only speaking of it in terms of Jesus. Jesus this... Jesus that... Satan this... Satan that... And that would be no less valid than whatever your favorite way would be.

I encourage you to seek to be more inclusive and generous, rather than nitpicky and harping. The ultimate goal is full acceptance of reality. So long as you harp, you aren't really understanding of reality, or embodying nonduality.

[Neo]

Ra: This is Ra. Come in . Over... Roger, Roger. This is Victor Roger, Over...

[electroBeam]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

You haven't researched this topic deeply enough, so you can still handwave it away as "merely placebo" in your mind.

With more research, you will no longer be able to do that.

Again, I'm not a fool. You think I haven't taken into account placebo in my research?

The bigger question is, have you taken into account circularity in your thinking?

The problem is that you guys who think you know about nonduality by learning it from Jed McKenna or the like, is that you generally don't do research. Because, hey, your premise is it gets in the way of enlightenment. And then when you hear something "different", you easily handwave it away because, hey, it's not related to enlightenment. (Notice the circularity?) But of course that's only because you haven't done enough research to have of a bigger picture to see that there are many other facts left unexplained. In your mind everything seems explained, but that's only of course because you haven't exposed yourself to the broader set of experiences available.

If you did a powerful psychedelic, or seen a person channeling, or spoken with a real healer, or spoken to a shaman, or seen an actual spirit, or encountered a non-human entity, or had an enlightened master read your mind, or had an enlightened master transform your body-energy, or seen an aura, or traveled out of body, or had a near death experience, or did a past-life regression under hypnosis, or re-lived memories of being in your mother's womb, or researched schizophrenia, or researched multiple-personality disorder, or researched many other edge-cases in brain science like split-brain patients and phantom limb phenomena... you'd be MUCH more openminded, and better off for it.

But all that stuff is "just a distraction from enlightenment" so I guess you don't care to waste your precious time investigating it. Although I find it odd that you don't mind wasting your precious time arguing about how nothing but enlightenment matters.

The problem with modern "skepticism" and "rationalism" is that it isn't real skepticism, but a veil for ignorance. It's become a weapon to shoot down all edge-case phenomena -- the very thing I've been warning you about and trying to inoculate you from by teaching radical openmindedness and concepts from epistemology.

But people still think I'm kidding.

Don't think that just because you understand enlightenment, or have had an enlightenment experience or two, that all the sudden your web of beliefs doesn't have you by the balls. It still does.

but even the Dalai Lama doesn't believe in healing powers. Go to 0:30 of this video 

 

[kurt]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A) This is trivial because when one speaks of "raising" consciousness, it's a linguistic device. Not a literal existential claim. It's a way of speaking to help people understand certain things about this work.

Again, you assume I'm naive about these things because you like to nitpick rather than seeking to be inclusive and hearing the intent of the communication. This is what happens when you let the left side of your brain become a lawyer for the ego. It can nitpick anything anyone says. You could take the words of Buddha himself and make him look like an ignorant devil if you so desire.

B) All nonduality teaching and communication is METAPHORICAL. As it must be. You cannot speak of enlightenment non-metaphorically. EVER! So whether you choose to speak of it in religious metaphor or scientific rationalist metaphor, it's all metaphor requiring decoding.

C) The self resides in EVERYTHING. Thought is an aspect of self. EVERYTHING is an aspect of self. Atman is Brahman, Brahman is Atman. Your conceptions of nonduality are excluding duality, which is an immature conceptual of nonduality. No masterful nondual teacher rants against duality, mundane life, education, mastery, or other people teaching nonduality using alternative styles. Because he understands the game.

I could choose to teach nonduality by only speaking of it in terms of Jesus. Jesus this... Jesus that... Satan this... Satan that... And that would be no less valid than whatever your favorite way would be.

I encourage you to seek to be more inclusive and generous, rather than nitpicky and harping. The ultimate goal is full acceptance of reality. So long as you harp, you aren't really understanding of reality, or embodying nonduality.

Theres a lot of ignorance in this statement.  You need to look into this more, lot of romanticizing and assuming about things you dont actually know.  No offense, I feel youre getting annoyed because youre not getting what you want, and thats compliance.  Fair dos, you are the self after all, but being the self doesnt mean that the self is always right.  The self creates, maintains and destroys itself eternally.  The self destroys itself in the fight between cancer and human lives.  The self destroys itself in world wars.  Its naieve to think that just because everything is the self that its good.  You dont decide what is good and what should be accepted or not, only the self does that by its own processes of creation and destruction.  Be very careful when you are attempting to play God with your limited knowledge and open mindedness, youre not exempt from being brought down by God either, youre a tool for his creation and he gives you everything you have and will take it away when he sees fit.

[Leo Gura]

@electroBeam Not everyone develops it of course. And it doesn't mean you can heal someone's "man flu".

One of the problems here is that when people hear "healing" they assume all sorts of silly things about what that might mean, creating a sort of straw-man.

Also, don't expect a enlightenment master to spill all his deepest wisdom and abilities to you on CNN. They're usually very careful and quiet about it. Cause they know you're gonna misunderstand them.

[Primeval]

@Leo Gura The Law of One Material sure seems legit. I've looked into before when I was delving deep into New Age teachings. But then again the "Emerald Tablets of Thoth the Atlantean" seemed legit to me too. (Not to be confused with the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus). I was into that until I realized how ridiculous it really was and that the Mormon's pulled the same back story with Ancient Tablets found and Translated by the Founder Joseph Smith. Then I knew I had been tricked into believing some concocted bullshit. In defense for the Law of One, it's kind of similar to the "Conversations With God", I liked where the author admitted in the book that he was "talking to himself", (even though it was explained as Higher Self). So while there are elements and grains of convincing "wisdom" in these things, come on man...come back to reality. 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Lha Bho said:

come back to reality.

That assumes you already know what realty is.

Boy, you guys really don't like practicing openmindedness. Interesting to observe.

I should post more openmindedness tests. So we can reveal your mind's true colors.

[Primeval]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That assumes you already know what realty is.

On the contrary I'm officially diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia. Without antipsychotic medications I have auditory hallucinations and psychotic delusions. If I miss a single daily dosage I'm up all night hearing voices and combating psychic forces in the form of felt energy vibrations. When I'm not on meds these hallucinations and delusions seem 100% real no questions asked. But when I'm back on meds I can see clearly that those things were actually not real. So I can say I know how easy it is to become under the spell of illusions. I may not be enlightened but I have fallen for strange New Age belief systems before as well as years of regular Zazen meditation at a Zen Center as well as teachers such as Eckhart Tolle etc. Psychedelics can seem real and inspire real insights into the nature of the cosmos but Leo, you aren't on DMT unless you are on DMT.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Lha Bho
Because Dragons

[electroBeam]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@electroBeam Not everyone develops it of course. And it doesn't mean you can heal someone's "man flu".

One of the problems here is that when people hear "healing" they assume all sorts of silly things about what that might mean, creating a sort of straw-man.

Also, don't expect a enlightenment master to spill all his deepest wisdom and abilities to you on CNN. They're usually very careful and quiet about it. Cause they know you're gonna misunderstand them.

so healing, you don't mean doctor sort of healing, you mean psychological or spiritual/enlightenment sort of healing.

And where can you find an interview where they will spill all of their wisdom, or are they just quiet all together

 

Just now, Leo Gura said:

That assumes you already know what realty is.

Boy, you guys really don't like practicing openmindedness. Interesting to observe.

I should post more openmindedness tests. So we can reveal your mind's true colors.

yeah bcos most people here are athiests, a reaction to the ludicracy of most people in religion.

Edited December 17, 2016 by electroBeam

[Primeval]

@Leo Gura I'm so open minded that I believe humans are hybrids genetically engineered by an Advanced Race of Extraterrestrials...just saying.

And that's just one of my beliefs.

[electroBeam]

@Lha Bho when you don't take your meds, and you start seeing aliens, what happens when you walk up to one and try to carry it, can you do it or does your hand go through it like its a hologram

[Primeval]

@electroBeam I don't regularly have visual hallucinations. I have during major episodes but nothing like that. Anyway think of it like this, humans can barely get 2 guys to walk on the moon, yet already are cloning animals and making babies with the genetics of 3 people, 3 parent babies (look it up). If aliens are real (UFOs) and can zoom around the galaxy, imagine how advanced their genetic science must be.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Lha Bho
Because Dragons

[electroBeam]

Just now, kurt said:

@electroBeam Ive watched all of his videos, and im talking about the teachings, not him.  Lets stick to the facts leccy.  The teachings are what I watch, the teachings have more holes in them than a wife beaters vest.  Please. Thank you.  

artificial insemination, and genetic modification is not as cool as you would think, you can't just clone stuff, only on things that are very specific, and even then, there's no guarantee. I know because I've been exposed to it as part of my degree. 

And people walked on the moon all the way back in 1969, genetic modification has only recently been a thing. 

 

Besides, we underestimate how weird and how different aliens can be. They would be nothing like humans, they could be a form of gass floating around reproducing, or maybe a bunch of matts that move by stretching. These gass and matts might have their own form of maths and science, or not maybe they use psychic abilities. 

Would aliens even have DNA. We understimate how different aliens are. The reason we haven't found any yet, is because we haven't recognised them, not because we don't see them. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by electroBeam

[Primeval]

5 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

And people walked on the moon all the way back in 1969, genetic modification has only recently been a thing. 

That was a split second ago as far as human development goes. And yeah, same with genetic modification. My point remains: If aliens are travelling around in advanced UFO crafts, then imagine the level of genetic science they would have. Parroting Leo here: Have an open mind

Edited December 17, 2016 by Lha Bho
Because Dragons

[Martin123]

@Leo Gura I have no idea if its real, but hey I have no idea if my parents are actually ma parents and they werent just lying to me since the beginning. I know nothing.

Which allows me to introduce manz interesting topics and think about them deeply. I liked the law of one, enjoyed it, thank you.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

so healing, you don't mean doctor sort of healing, you mean psychological or spiritual/enlightenment sort of healing.

And where can you find an interview where they will spill all of their wisdom, or are they just quiet all together

I mean healing of the sort Jesus is said to have done. Keep in mind, there may be different degrees of healing. From very mild forms, to extremely advanced forms which very few people are able to demonstrate.

You won't find interviews on TV about such things, because anyone who speaks of it will immediately be demonized and their message distorted due to dense closedmindedness in mainstream society.

You know why you don't hear about the most profound and deepest things? Just take a look at what happened with this thread. When this kind of dynamic is commonplace all across society -- and even among enlightened people -- you can really appreciate the need for esotericism. It's virtually impossible to openly and genuinely discuss a radical worldview in public because people's web of belief immediately gets threatened, and they become emotional and combative. And the whole thing devolves into a debate with projections and character attacks. No actual research or investigation happens. And people are left even more ignorant and closedminded than they previously were. Such are the epistemic dynamics of mind which have kept mankind in the present dark age. And may lead to man's annihilation.

Intolerance, bigotry, crusading, war, the excesses of capitalism, closedmindness, lack of empathy, low consciousness, lack of holism, lack of systems thinking, lack of understanding of epistemology, ego, Zen Devilry... it's all closely interconnected. And enlightenment alone will not be sufficient to escape it.

[Hunter Arrington]

Ra sure does like to say “I am Ra” over and over again. Seems slightly fabricated, although it, of course, could not be. Ra also loves to use slash marks…if that was Ra who was actually communicating in that exact way. Martin Ball denies the existence of a soul, but Ra insists. The instrument of communication seems sketchy in how technical it supposedly is…especially with Ra’s instructions. Did we ever get what Rah sounds like, or is it entirely through the women’s voice? What did she sound like when speaking? Rah mentioned the opening up of infinity can be caused by taken LSD. This was written when LSD was big and available. A guess is that one of the authors had experimented with this, had an opening of non duality, and used that opening to create this story/set up. I’d like Richard Dawkins humor to get ahold of this…while realizing he doesn’t transmute the most accurate truth of what God and religion actually are. Leo says the absulute can’t be a result of chemicals in the brain…but 5MEO alters neurotransmitters in the brain. The alteration of the neurotransmitters reveals non dual awareness. So it does seem these mystical experiences are a result of brain oriented phenomenon FOR SURE. Could be wrong…but that’s the great part! Could be right…that’s the great part too! Also, sorry if I misquoted you Leo. Ra and the questioner also start talking about bigfoot at one point. That’s interesting. Maybe Ra can help us find that son of a gun so we can have lunch with the Bigfoot tribe.  

It doesn’t matter what I think or what anyone thinks…we have to commit to truth. Reality is reality regardless of opinion. Hopefully science will help us out with this process of discovery. 

On a practical level Ra mentions Meditation, contemplation, and prayer. 

Ra mentions Rasputin. Cool. 

It seems like the questioner and and the answerer are the same person. 

If these were voice recorded that would be more convincing if the author really wanted it to kind of seem real. But it’s written…Perfectly. 

Introduced me to the Urantia Book. Looks like it’s worth checking out at least. 

There are lots of historical mentions which is awesome. It had me doing extra research. 

This is worth checking out for anyone interested in mysticism. I’ll probably read the rest of the books.

This is definitely seems like it’s coming from an experienced perspective(possibly LSD). 

Cool shit. Good find. 

Reminds me of Martin Ball’s book The Solandarian Game.

@Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

@Hunter Arrington "Hey, this is Ra, for Actualized.org..."

[Hunter Arrington]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Hunter Arrington "Hey, this is Ra, for Actualized.org..."

I'd shit myself three times in a row.