A Challenge To Everything You Think You Know

[kurt]

13 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

His main message is, to not get caught up following a path, and to accept reality as it is, because there is no such thing as a path, and you are already enlightened, and chasing enlightenment is bad, because you are chasing a fantasy, etc.

His message is dont challenge yourself, sit on your but and accept reality (your own demonic impulses) and do whatever the "fuck" you want. Because in contrast to actualized.org (with whom he is competing for viewers) it FEELS better than having to do any real psychological work on yourself.  You need to understand some of us have been in this game for a long time, and have made considerable leaps and bounds and have been cornered by all the johnny come latelys in town.  He attracts lazy young people who want to get their kicks for free and disengage their thinking minds.  Its not an enlightenment teaching im afraid. Sorry, but it just isnt, anybody can read a few mooji books for long enough, have a non dual realization and think they are realized.  It really does not work that way, despite their level of intelligence.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

If this topic includes enlightenment then it includes the discussion of obstacles to enlightenment.

You are being extremely selective, I think you just failed my openmindedness test...

One of the greatest obstacles to enlightenment, is constantly talking about obstacles to enlightenment.

If you're paranoid that people can't be trusted to walk and chew gum at the same time, well, that's your thing.

[kurt]

6 minutes ago, Maorice said:

The problem with openmindedness is though, that you can easily get lost in all kinds of nonsense theories. So this always has to be balanced with a critical, skeptical, "scientific" mindedness. If someone makes a claim for example that he can heal people from a distance just using visualization, you have to demand some kind of proof. And you have to evaluate the evidence the person who makes that claim brings forth. And you have to listen to the critics on the other side, too. In the end it is similar to be judge at court. You look at the evidence of the one side, and of the other side. And you have to do the research. Furthermore you have to accept other possibilities like: both are wrong, both a right to some degree, both don't know, you yourself don't know. And so forth.

Doing the research can be the hardest part. Because what is presented as evidence can be very deceiving. Some people create false evidence and do all kinds of tricks to deceive you to believing their claim.

I know some people who say they are openminded, who believe the most ridiculous bullshit, like the earth is flat for example. I am not talking about people from the middle ages, but about people who live today and had a normal education. They read some absurd theories on the internet and believe them. If you confront them with counter-evidence you can clearly see that in the end they believe in their theories because they subconsciously want to.

On the other hand there are claims, which seem outrageous at the beginning, but with enough research they turn out to be true.

Thanks, I resonate with this.

[kurt]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

One of the greatest obstacles to enlightenment, is constantly talking about obstacles to enlightenment.

Your degree of open mindedness thwarts your process toward enlightenment by exploring things that have nothing to do with realization.  You can go off in all kinds of tangents and miss the essence of the process.  Been there, done that.  And lastly, if you are not enlightened yourself, why are you creating a path for people?  For all we know you could be barking up so many wrong trees because you missed the essence of the process.  Why cant you just encourage people to find decent teachers, and then provide supplement advice?  Are you not getting  little too big for your boots here?  Leave enlightenment to the experts who are realized.  

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Maorice said:

@Leo Gura

Of course you have to be openminded to some degree. The problem with openmindedness is though, that you can easily get lost in all kinds of nonsense theories. So this always has to be balanced with a critical, skeptical, "scientific" mindedness. If someone makes a claim for example that he can heal people from a distance just using visualization (for example), you have to demand some kind of proof. And you have to evaluate the evidence to person who makes that claim brings forth. And you have to listen to the critics on the other side, too. In the end it is similar to be judge at court. You look at the evidence of the one side, and of the other side. And you have to do the research. Furthermore you have to accept other possibilities like: both are wrong, both a right to some degree, both don't know, you yourself don't know. And so forth.

Doing the research can be the hardest part. Because what is presented as evidence can be very deceiving. Some people create false evidence and do all kinds of tricks to deceive you to believing their claim.

I know some people who say they are openminded, who believe the most ridiculous bullshit, like the earth is flat for example. I am not talking about people from the middle ages, but about people who live today and had a normal education. They read some absurd theories on the internet and believe them. If you confront them with counter-evidence you can clearly see that in the end they believe in their theories because they subconsciously want to.

On the other hand there are claims, which seem outrageous at the beginning, but with enough research they turn out to be true.

Those are some of the core problems of epistemology.

You cannot avoid risk either way. Traps abound.

I would caution you though, because the ones who get caught in some of the worst theories are the "skeptics" and "scientists".

The entire foundation of science is predicated upon huge gaps in understanding, which we don't have room to get into here.

[Toby]

Well, I did check out the material some 1-2 years ago, because Bentinho was constantly referring to it and I guess Bashar/Abraham in addition to more classic Advaita teachings. I found it to be the moste nondual and oneness based channelling I've come across. But it wasn't something I felt going in more deeply so far.

[electroBeam]

Just now, kurt said:

His message is dont challenge yourself, sit on your but and accept reality (your own demonic impulses) and do whatever the "fuck" you want. Because in contrast to actualized.org (with whom he is competing for viewers) it FEELS better than having to do any real psychological work on yourself.  You need to understand some of us have been in this game for a long time, and have made considerable leaps and bounds and have been cornered by all the johnny come latelys in town.  He attracts lazy young people who want to get their kicks for free and disengage their thinking minds.  Its not an enlightenment teaching im afraid. Sorry, but it just isnt, anybody can read a few mooji books for long enough, have a non dual realization and think they are realized.  It really does not work that way, despite their level of intelligence.

man i don't agree with him, that's why im going back to actualized.org

 

BUT I can't ignore your post without correcting you on something. His viewers aren't lazy people man.... they are people like me, who are sick and tired of getting caught up in fantasy and stories about enlightenment and the paranormal and (Sadghuru) psychic powers, that they just want something refreshingly realistic. 

Its so nice when you finally realize that what you are searching for doesnt actually exist, and that all that's real is reality. He attracts realists/non bullshitters. 

he has some pretty damn good points, especially his point that chasing enlightenment wont get you anywhere

You are really good at judging before watching any of his videos

 

and if you did research on him, he is definitely enlightened. Emerald Wilkin's video directly highlights it. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by electroBeam

[Key Elements]

Debating wastes time. 

 

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, kurt said:

Your degree of open mindedness thwarts your process toward enlightenment by exploring things that have nothing to do with realization.  You can go off in all kinds of tangents and miss the essence of the process.  Been there, done that.  And lastly, if you are not enlightened yourself, why are you creating a path for people?  For all we know you could be barking up so many wrong trees because you missed the essence of the process.  Why cant you just encourage people to find decent teachers, and then provide supplement advice?  Are you not getting  little too big for your boots here?  Leave enlightenment to the experts who are realized.  

Because I've seen things and studied things that you don't know. There's a method to the madness.

If you don't like my style, feel free to follow whatever other style you like.

Anyone you follow, even the most enlightened, can mislead you. That is the nature of leadership.

I have a bigger mission in this life than my personal enlightenment. If my only goal was personal enlightenment, that would be easy.

[jse]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The entire foundation of science is predicated upon huge gaps in understanding, which we don't have room to get into here.

The biggest trap in the foundation of science, specially physics: the presumption that consciousness arises from the material world.

Edited December 17, 2016 by jse
semantics

[Leo Gura]

@NTOgen I do take my own advice.

I never claim to be infallible.

Everything I say could be wrong.

Everything position I hold is just a temporary position. I'm not attached to any of it.

And my positions will of course change as I grow. That's what growth looks like.

I'm here to share ideas, not to defend positions. That's all just a game.

I don't care if I contradict myself, because I'm not ideological.

Tomorrow, everything I say could change 180 degrees. It doesn't matter to me.

People have a really hard time dealing with this, because they want to pin me down to some position to play their ideological game. And I refuse to play that game.

What I care about is sharing ideas with people and helping them learn, understand, and grow.

If I discover tomorrow that devil-worship can help you grow, I'll be here proclaiming the amazing power of devil worship and encouraging you to go try it for yourself with an open mind.

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, str4 said:

Yes, very true, if we take hearsay and add the contents of it as just another belief, and start stacking those beliefs, then we are moving backwards. When I'm reading that book, I don't care if that mysterious Ra exists or not, all I know that since nothing is quite frankly impossible — it may very well exist. However, whether it exists or not, is not the point. The point is whether I can extract some valuable insights from that book without taking anything from it as a "true" or "false".

This should be tought in school! 

[Leo Gura]

For all ye Zen Devils in the ranks, I've got a new video -- already in the hopper -- to cure that particular disease of the mind

Or at the very least, to inoculate those pure minds that remain uninfected.

Coming soon

[kurt]

@electroBeam Ive watched all of his videos, and im talking about the teachings, not him.  Lets stick to the facts leccy.  The teachings are what I watch, the teachings have more holes in them than a wife beaters vest.  Please. Thank you.  

[kurt]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because I've seen things and studied things that you don't know. There's a method to the madness.

If you don't like my style, feel free to follow whatever other style you like.

Anyone you follow, even the most enlightened, can mislead you. That is the nature of leadership.

I have a bigger mission in this life than my personal enlightenment. If my only goal was personal enlightenment, that would be easy.

All Im saying is there is a downside to what youre doing, and Im surprised (and equally not surprised) to hear that youre not interested in listening to that.  For me that is worrisome.  However, youre free to do as you please are you not?   

[Bebop]

@kurt While I agree with what you are saying that his teachings can mislead people, so can other teachers as well. Its up to the people listening to his message whether or not they want to follow what he has to say. Keep in mind the focus is towards personal development and improving the quality of your life, while also keeping an open mind about other possibilities that might exist that could radically change the way you look at life. In the end the follower has to make the decision to be smart enough to see that they need to test these ideas and not take them on blind faith.

[dice]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's almost certainly false in my view. I've met healers (both enlightened and non-enlightened) personally who've spoken of their successes, I've had healers work on me, and if you spend even a bit of time doing research into various mystical traditions and alternative healing modalities, you'll see they don't make sense unless you allow for healing to be real.

Just one of the cool perks of mastering nonduality

@Leo Gura  

Also consider that possibility: They just think they can heal people. It is like to go vegan and feel better. Those people don't feel better because they don't longer eat meat, it is because they suddenly give their body all its daily requirement of vitamins and minerals for the first time. Of course they feel better! They engage themselves in nutrition for the first time and of course they feel better with all the micronutrients. But that's also possible with meat and has nothing do to with the meat by itself. So if someone "heals" someone other there can be other factors that actually effect the healing process. 
Also consider the placebo effect. If I go to someone who heals me.. of course, I believe in it and will have a placebo effect. So there can be also psychological effects.

Edited December 17, 2016 by dice

[Toby]

Regarding "healing" (physical,psychological or spiritual): sit in the presence of a master and say afterwards that it is just "placebo". I have no doubt that such things exist and are common but the really good ones don't even talk about it because it would distract people. But of course, there is a lot of bullshit out there as well.

[9]

Sounds like those L/L Research guys are smoking even better stuff than Leo does.

I encourage you guys to check out their 'law of one' instagram profile.  Some really great non-duality related art. That alone was worth checking that out.

It's also my first post here so hello everybody!

[Sevi]

@Leo Gura thank you very much for sharing. I've read similar books, their messages unify on the same subject; but this one looks like having more details, thanks.