A Challenge To Everything You Think You Know

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Azrael said:

Thank's for the share. I'm currently reading My Big TOE and it's a good starter for these kind of far-out things. I'll save your resource here. Sounds interesting. However, I'm very confident these days in guessing that there is way more crazy shit we don't know abut. Ever since the first MeO-breakthrough I was just shown that the idea of me having private thoughts in my own head/body and living my separate existence all by myself, is merely a hallucination. And when you make that first step outside, a whole new way of approaching and thinking about extraterrestrial things arises.

Well of course! After a breakthrough dose of 5-meo, you'll be open to pretty much anything ;D

[jse]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@jse How quickly you judge.

@Leo, this life is finite, so many things to do, so little time...

Sometimes we need to be discerning and apply a triage of sorts to information.

[Leo Gura]

@jse How easily one could use that very excuse against all nonduality teachings.

That's the chief reason why the world is 99% unenlightened.

[jse]

4 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

how do you know non-duality is real? Or that its bad to let dual stuff enter your head

The moment "I" knew non-duality was real, the illusion of "I" would cease to exist immediately.  This is work in progress for me.

[electroBeam]

@jse This book actually makes some good points around page 15 16 and 17

[kurt]

@Leo Gura The chief reason 99% of people are not enlightened is because not everybody wants enlightenment, or are ready for it.  And reading 3000 books about the inner workings of the minds of other peoples experiences does not make you enlightened, it makes you very knowledgable about a lot of different topics.  but as long as you keep extroverting your mind towards these topics your self is continually deluded into imagining there is some experiential solution waiting out there.

[jse]

9 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@jse This book actually makes some good points around page 15 16 and 17

Nah, sorry, I only see entertainment value here, such as this gem:

"Our research group uses what I prefer to call “tuned trance telepathy” to
communicate with an extraterrestrial race called Ra. We use the English
language because it is known by Ra. In fact, Ra knows more of it than I do.
Ra landed on Earth about 11,000 years ago as a sort of extraterrestrial
missionary with the objective of helping Earthman with his mental
evolution. Failing in this attempt, Ra retreated from the Earth’s surface but
continued to monitor activities closely on this planet. For this reason Ra is
highly informed about our history, languages, etc."
 

Edited December 17, 2016 by jse
too many words

[electroBeam]

@kurt you need to read books to learn teachings to 'get you there'. And yes, there is a path, regardless of what teachers say, you aren't already enlightened until you realize it. 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, kurt said:

reading 3000 books about the inner workings of the minds of other peoples experiences does not make you enlightened

I never said it would.

Notice how you frame things in terms of "If it ain't gonna enlighten you, it doesn't matter". That's a very narrow view.

Tying your shoelaces doesn't enlighten you either, yet you still do it.

[jse]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@jse How easily one could use that very excuse against all nonduality teachings.

That's the chief reason why the world is 99% unenlightened.

99% (only)?  I guess I'm in good company then.

And bear in mind that 87.68% of all quoted statistics are simply made up on the spot.

[electroBeam]

@jse if you ignore all of the terrestrial bs and look at the philosophy on page 15 16 and 17, its pretty valid. You can't chuck out the baby with the bath water. Buddhism is 99% Bullshit as well, would you just neglect the whole thing together though?

[kurt]

@electroBeam Yes, you need to understand what enlightenment is, and do specific practices to get the mind prepared.  None of it entails reading twenty million books or doing excersise about beliefs.  All beliefs drop when you understand who you are in relation to everything else.  Then you can get on with living your life, which is supposed to be the point.  Whats the point of all this if youre going to sit at home reading books all your life?  

[jse]

1 minute ago, electroBeam said:

@jse if you ignore all of the terrestrial bs and look at the philosophy on page 15 16 and 17, its pretty valid. You can't chuck out the baby with the bath water. Buddhism is 99% Bullshit as well, would you just neglect the whole thing together though?

I've read through those pages but these eyes can't see it - @Electro, can you please indulge me and point me to the enlightening info that's gone over my head?

[Leo Gura]

@Snick Enlightenment is quite easy to quantify. Either you are conscious of what your are, or you're not. This silly teaching that we're all already enlightened is just a word-game. No, we're not all already enlightened. To be enlightened means you REALIZE it. Of course nothing existential changes about you. You've always been exactly what you are. But enlightenment doesn't mean existential change. It means a change in perspective, a realization. This change in perspective either did or did not occur. It's a factual matter.

I've had this change in perspective -- but like for many people -- it didn't "sick". Which simply means more work is required. No big deal.

[electroBeam]

Just now, kurt said:

@electroBeam Yes, you need to understand what enlightenment is, and do specific practices to get the mind prepared.  None of it entails reading twenty million books or doing excersise about beliefs.  All beliefs drop when you understand who you are in relation to everything else.  Then you can get on with living your life, which is supposed to be the point.  Whats the point of all this if youre going to sit at home reading books all your life?  

The more books you read, the more likely you are to find a practice or technique that works the quickest, or resonates with you the best. And there's more to life then enlightenment. There's also personal development, and changing the matrix. Just because you're enlightened, doesn't mean you become undogmatic. Just look at Mooji, or Rali, there are both enlightened as fuck, and when you tell them something that they think is bullshit, they get all pissed off and frustrated. You definitely do not drop all beliefs definitely

[kurt]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I never said it would.

Notice how you frame things in terms of "If it ain't gonna enlighten you, it doesn't matter". That's a very narrow view.

Tying your shoelaces doesn't enlighten you either, yet you still do it.

It matters to you, but it does not equate to enlightenment, it equates to having a bunch of knowledge and an open mind.  But open mind is just a very narrow personality trait, it means nothing, its an archetype, but the way you dress it up you tell people that this is the be all and end all, like everyone needs to become the next ken wilber.  You know, ken wilber is not even self realized, and hes a recluse.  Nobody but he knows why, but I doubt he has much interest in living life because hes just conditioned himself to be an academic.  Your vision reminds me a lot of his work, which has actually been a massive flop as it just appeals to thats very small section of people who thirst for book knowledge on things that dont matter much.  Most people are looking for freedom from limitation and to get on with living their lives.  And Leo, for someone whos supposed to be so open minded, its very difficult to have a conversation with you, everyone is wrong is your eyes.  Ive never seen you once agree with someone unless you backed their opinion already.  All I see you do is arge your perspective.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, kurt said:

@electroBeam Yes, you need to understand what enlightenment is, and do specific practices to get the mind prepared.  None of it entails reading twenty million books or doing excersise about beliefs.  All beliefs drop when you understand who you are in relation to everything else.  Then you can get on with living your life, which is supposed to be the point.  Whats the point of all this if youre going to sit at home reading books all your life?  

Again, you're looking at everything through a single narrow lens: If it doesn't make you enlightened, it's pointless.

But everything is pointless. Including enlightenment. So what?

Not everything I talk about is mono-maniacally focused on enlightenment. I'm also interested in living life, as you say.

[kurt]

2 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

The more books you read, the more likely you are to find a practice or technique that works the quickest, or resonates with you the best. And there's more to life then enlightenment. There's also personal development, and changing the matrix. Just because you're enlightened, doesn't mean you become undogmatic. Just look at Mooji, or Rali, there are both enlightened as fuck, and when you tell them something that they think is bullshit, they get all pissed off and frustrated. You definitely do not drop all beliefs definitely

No, the more you read books the more you read books.  If you want to find a spiritual practice that enlightens you, take your pick.  There are hundreds of complete nondual schools churning out enlightened people by the dozen that have been working for centuries.  You want railey and mooji and you want to discuss it on actualized.org forum.  Thats what youre doing, youre not going for realization, youre just doing this.  Come on, get real

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

Enlightenment has to be a single-minded pursuit (to use these kinds of terms), if you want it then everything you do has to turn on that center alone.

That is false.

In fact, it's dangerous.

Just because you choose to do that way, doesn't mean everyone else does. Those are your values at work.

By your logic, the only way to become enlightened is to lock yourself in a cave and do nothing but contemplate. And that's just factually false.

You can become enlightened while being artist, or running a business, or writing a book, or making music, or training to become an astrophysicist.

[jse]

3 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Just look at Mooji, or Rali, there are both enlightened as fuck, and when you tell them something that they think is bullshit, they get all pissed off and frustrated. You definitely do not drop all beliefs definitely

ppplease... you can't compare these two beings on the "enlightenment scale".  Rali is just a kid looking to make a buck  (his own words) out of people's inherent search for the truth.