Before Creation

[WokeBloke]

Creation has not been going on forever. Before creation there was literally nothing. 

Thus one could say God has not been here for eternity because eternity is time based and in the beginning there was no time or experience.

In the beginning there was I and I alone. No experience. Complete ignorance. Then I initiated creation and experiencing. And now that I've started I can't stop. And why the hell would I haha!

Thoughts?

[Thought Art]

No, there has always been creation. It never began.

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

No, there has always been creation. It never began.

That's a belief with no evidence. Big bang suggests there was beginning to the universe.

[Tyler Durden]

12 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

That's a belief with no evidence. Big bang suggests there was beginning to the universe.

What was before the Big Bang?

[WokeBloke]

14 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

What was before the Big Bang?

You/Uncreated Creator.

Edited October 9, 2021 by WokeBloke

[Thought Art]

@WokeBloke There is actually no evidence of a big bang either. You just imagine and believe there was one because its widely accepted by your pop culture. You have not gone and proved there was one you just believe it.

 

Also, take this into account.

If there was nothing that existed before the big bang. Then it existed. Therefore what created nothing? Why is nothing existing more plausible than something existing? It isn't

Because it's infinity which has no beginning and no end. 

What created an uncreated creator?

See, the problem with this right now is that you are not taking into account the reality that paradox exists. You simply end up with an infinite regress problem. 

If there was a nothing that existed, then who created that nothing? God did, but how could God create nothing if it wasn't eternal to begin with? It makes not sense. It's a paradox.

Well, if nothing exists then what created that nothingness? Well, how could nothing turn into something? Is a nothing that is a seed for an entirely complex and intelligent universe really ever 'nothing' to begin with?

How could nothing become time, space, temporality, feelings, emotions, food, concepts, beauty, art, people, ants, planets, imagination, dreams, etc... Because its eternal and all powerful to begin with and has no beginning or end. It's infinite creative potential, which is nothing.. which is right now and it has always been. 

If there was a nothing that existed before something. If you are taking into account of of reality, then that nothing would have had to existed forever, before something existed for a little while and both pre-existence and existence are aspects of the same unity of forever. Forever is right now. Forever.

Whether it's the religion of science, or of some religious system. you can actually grok these things without belief.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Thought Art

[WokeBloke]

6 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@WokeBloke There is actually no evidence of a big bang either. You just imagine and believe there was one because its widely accepted by your pop culture. You have not gone and proved there was one you just believe it.

 

Also, take this into account.

If there was nothing that existed before the big bang. Then it existed. Therefore what created nothing? Why is nothing existing more plausible than something existing? It isn't

Because it's infinity which has no beginning and no end. 

What created an uncreated creator?

See, the problem with this right now is that you are not taking into account the reality that paradox exists. You simply end of with an infinte regress problem. 

Well, if nothing exists then what created that nothingness? Well, how could nothing turn into something? Is a nothing that is a seed for an entirely complex and intelligent universe really ever 'nothing' to begin with?

There is evidence for the big bang. namely the fact that the universe is expanding and was once infinitely dense.

https://www.uwa.edu.au/study/-/media/Faculties/Science/Docs/Evidence-for-the-Big-Bang.pdf

 

 

Before the big bang there was uncreated creator/source. Some people call this "nothing". Obviously it can't be reduced to a word and its power defies all logic.

Before this creator began creating there was no creation. If the creation has always been here that means one has an infinite past. This is impossible because if one goes into the past forever then one never gets to the present moment.

 

Also if this has been going on forever why is it still so problematic lol? One would thing we would have figured it out by now. Creation is a very recent thing in my opinion.

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by WokeBloke

[Thought Art]

7 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

There is evidence for the big bang. namely the fact that the universe is expanding and was once infinitely dense.

https://www.uwa.edu.au/study/-/media/Faculties/Science/Docs/Evidence-for-the-Big-Bang.pdf

 

 

Before the big bang there was uncreated creator/source. Some people call this "nothing". Obviously it can't be reduced to a word and its power defies all logic.

Before this creator began creating there was no creation. If the creation has always been here that means one has an infinite past. This is impossible because if one goes into the past forever then one never gets to the present moment.

 

Yeah but you are just making appeals to authority based on belief.

A big bang is still only relative even it its 'true' is just relatively true.

Before there was this universe, how do you know there wasn't other universes? You don't.

Also, how can this nothing create something? Because its not nothing it's everything. A seed is a tree, though they look different depending on where they are on the journey.

What is is capable of stopping nothing from breaking every single belief, opinion, viewpoint, story, emotional, bias that you have? Nothing. Nothing is the highest power and it's been around forever. Nothing is so powerful it can dream up everything because everything is absolutely relative to nothing. Nothing is not relative to anything. Relativity only exists once nothing have become something in contrast to something else. Which is relative. Everything is nothing.

But, Nothing has no beginning or end. Because it would have to be something to be so. Therefore, is forever. Already.

Always already God, infinite singularity.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Thought Art

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

Yeah but you are just making appeals to authority based on belief.

A big bang is still only relative even it its 'true' is just relatively true.

Before there was this universe, how do you know there wasn't other universes? You don't.

Also, how can this nothing create something? Because its not nothing it's everything. A seed is a tree, though they look different depending on where they are on the journey.

But, Nothing has no beginning or end. Because it would have to be something to be so. Therefore, is forever. Already.

Always already God, infinite singularity.

This universe had a beginning. I'm very sorry if you can't see that.

There could not have been infinite universes before this. Because one would never get to this universe. If you go back infinitely then you have to keep going back forever. Thus getting to this universe would be impossible.

In my opinion God created one infinite universe that had a beginning and this is it.

[Thought Art]

10 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

This universe had a beginning. I'm very sorry if you can't see that.

There could not have been infinite universes before this. Because one would never get to this universe. If you go back infinitely then you have to keep going back forever. Thus getting to this universe would be impossible.

In my opinion God created one infinite universe that had a beginning and this is it.

How can something infinite have a beginning? 

If it had a beginning it would be finite

Also, don't dogmatically speak down to people on the forum. Just common curtesy.

You THINK the universe began. Right now. You are imagining it based on appeals to authority.  

Also, why does something infinite just happen to have the limitations which you say it does or imagine it would? 

"There could not have been infinite universes before this. Because one would never get to this universe. If you go back infinitely then you have to keep going back forever. Thus getting to this universe would be impossible."

You are imagining infinity working in a linear fashion. But Infinity has no such limitations.

Nothing doesn't have any rules because even the physical laws it dreams up in this universe as aspects of its infinite mind.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Thought Art

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

How can something infinite have a beginning? 

If it had a beginning it would be finite

The creation is technically speaking finite. The uncreated creator is infinite.

[Thought Art]

6 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

The creation is technically speaking finite. The uncreated creator is infinite.

Actually, my opinion is even the finite universe we live in contains infinite infinities. 

It's also likely our universe just is and has always been. Not everything has to have a beginning, imo that is a very human idea just because we see it happening to us in our biocentric existence doesn't mean it's true in all cases.

But, your point was saying, creation happened with the big bang therefore forever doesn't exist.

Yet, your argument suggests that forever does exist and it exists as the very least an uncreated creator, who created itself paradoxically and therefore that must have always existed forever.

Also, I am humble here and just sharing my thoughts on infinity and my direct experiences. Still growing each day.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Thought Art

[WokeBloke]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Actually, my opinion is even the finite universe we live in contains infinite infinities. 

But, your point was saying, creation happened with the big bang therefore forever doesn't exist.

Yet, your argument suggests that forever does exist and it exists as the very least an uncreated creator, who created itself paradoxically and therefore that must have always existed forever.

The creator did not create itself. It is uncreated. The creator created creation which had a beginning. Creation had a beginning. Creation does not end in my view but it did have a beginning.

The creator did not exist in the traditional sense before creation. The creator had no experience before creation. Creator created its existence/expereince.

Edited October 9, 2021 by WokeBloke

[Thought Art]

7 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

The creator did not create itself. It is uncreated. The creator created creation which had a beginning. Creation had a beginning. Creation does not end in my view but it did have a beginning.

The creator did not exist in the traditional sense before creation. The creator had no experience before creation. Creator created its existence/expereince.

So, it never began. To me you are saying the same thing I am saying.

Because, normally when we say something began... For example if I am sitting here, typing on a computer. Just a moment before I was not typing. So when I started typing it was relative to something. But, if nothing exists it can really be relative to anything .

But, existence existed for that to be possible. Because infinity is infinite relativity. 

But, if nothing exists, and then it exists. It couldn't have really began in the traditional sense either.

But, nothing exists in order for it to create something. The uncreated creator that doesn't exist... paradoxically exists. If the creator did not create itself, and is uncreated how did creation create an uncreated creator who did not create itself but created creation?

Edited October 9, 2021 by Thought Art

[WokeBloke]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

So, it never began. To me you are saying the same thing I am saying.

Because, normally when we say something began... For example if I am sitting here, typing on a computer. Just a moment before I was not typing. But, existence existed for that to be possible.

But, if nothing exists, and then it exists. It couldn't have really began in the traditional sense either.

But, nothing exists. The uncreated creator that doesn't exist... paradoxically exists. If the creator did not create itself, and is uncreated how did creation create a creator who did not create itself but created creation?

The creator did not begin. The creation/universe began. Obviously the creator is not "nothing" since it created the universe.

The thing is without experience you don't know that you are there. Thus prior to creating experience there was no experience whatsoever which could also be called non existence. Yet at the same time the potential to experience was there.

Edited October 9, 2021 by WokeBloke

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

The creator did not begin. The creation/universe began. Obviously the creator is not "nothing" since it created the universe.

The thing is without experience you don't know that you are there. Thus prior to creating experience there was no experience whatsoever.

Yeah, but how do you know that it did not know that it was there?

I mean, it created a perfectly stable universe in a big bang right? So, it must have known itself rather infinitely.

But, maybe at that level of infinite consciousness knowing itself and not knowing itself is the same thing.

Because not knowing and knowing are relative things it dreamed up.... but an uncreated creator is not relative. Its nothing.

So you can't really compare nothing to something because something happening like, before the universe would have to happen within time. But time is something it created, time is completely relative to our universe. and not an uncreated creator.

How long could nothing last? Never it couldn't last even for a second. So, how could the universe have began?

Maybe this is how we start getting into the Love Territory.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Thought Art

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

Yeah, but how do you know that it did not know that it was there?

I mean, it created a perfectly stable universe in a big bang right? So, it must have known itself rather infinitely.

But, maybe at that level of infinite consciousness knowing itself and not knowing itself is the same thing.

Maybe this is how we start getting into the Love Territory.

How can one know one is there without experience?

In the beginning God was ignorant (hence stuff like Hitler) but of course God has always been Love.

Edited October 9, 2021 by WokeBloke

[Thought Art]

1 minute ago, WokeBloke said:

How can one know one is there without experience?

In the beginning God was ignorant (hence stuff like Hitler) but of course God has always been Love.

No, it was all knowing forever because God is consciousness. Who taught God? How could an ignorant God create this universe? 

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

No, it was all knowing forever because God is consciousness. Who taught God? How could an ignorant God create this universe? 

Take a look at humans throughout history. Almost none of them knew they were the creator. The ant has no god damn clue what it is. Its just running all over the place. Even human have no idea what they are but they think they know. Essentially God is exploring itself and fining more and more out about itself. Since god is infinite it also has infinite ignorance. 

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

How can one know one is there without experience?

In the beginning God was ignorant (hence stuff like Hitler) but of course God has always been Love.

God actually Love hitler, it wasn't a mistake. God is completely unbiased. I think the mistake is to assume that because we as finite humans dislike hitler that God somehow made a mistake. It didn't.

Not defending him. I think he is a monster, but God is everything including Hitler and every evil person ever.

Even hitler, exists super symmetrically within all infinity and is equal and unprefered over everything else. Why would an uncreated creator who could create and entire universe judge any aspect of any part of itself. It has no where to go. And death is something it dreams up. Just as it does time, space, and even feelings. It's all God's Will.