Are people actually "philosophical zombies"?

[Tyler Durden]

A philosophical zombie or p-zombie argument is a thought experiment in philosophy of mind that imagines a hypothetical being that is physically identical to and indistinguishable from a normal person but does not have conscious experience, qualia, or sentience. 

Is this a true representation of what people actually are in this dream that we call reality?

Edited October 9, 2021 by Tyler Durden

[GreenWoods]

Yes and you too.

The only 'being' who has experience and sentience is God.

It seems like you as a human have an experience. But that is an illusion. You don't have more experience and sentience than the imaginary chair in front of you.

It's all equally the experience of God.

[caspex]

Yes, everyone is pzombie and so are you one. The only 'thing' with true consciousness would be everything at once(infinity)

[Tyler Durden]

@GreenWoods But the pain, hunger and thirst my body feels seem very real to me. Is that just an illusion that God creates to fool itself?

@Swarnim I don't feel like a p-zombie. It feels as if I'm being conscious from my first person's experience.

[GreenWoods]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

@GreenWoods But the pain, hunger and thirst my body feels seem very real to me. Is that just an illusion that God creates to fool itself?

 

Yes, an illusion. Part of the illusion of an ego. 

Pain and hunger are real, but they are not of the body. They have nothing to do with the body. These are sensations floating around.

You can have a large wound in your leg, and there can be pain, but the pain has nothing to do with the wound.

Let's say a person stands 100 meters away and has no wounded legs.

The raw experience is that there is one wounded leg floating around, one sensation of pain floatong around, and a healthy leg (of the other person) floating around. The pain is no more related to your wounded leg than to the other person's healthy leg. 

You can say that the pain belongs to your leg. But that is constructing illusions. You could just as well say that the pain belongs to the healthy leg of the other person 100 meters away.

In the same way, rather than saying that the thoughts you are thinking right now are from your mind, from your body, you could just as well say that they are the thoughts of a person 100 meters away. Equally an illusion. The thoughts are just floating around, had by no one, belonging to no one.

[Tyler Durden]

@GreenWoods Interesting explanation. But illusion of connectedness of those sensations to the body is very persistent. Pain will go away only if you treat wound on your leg. Nothing else will make it feel better except that.

[GreenWoods]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

@GreenWoods Interesting explanation. But illusion of connectedness of those sensations to the body is very persistent. Pain will go away only if you treat wound on your leg. Nothing else will make it feel better except that.

Yeah that's part of God's game.

If God didn't imagine the illusion of persistency and causality, you might get suspicious of whether pain is really connected to wounds.

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

A philosophical zombie or p-zombie argument is a thought experiment in philosophy of mind that imagines a hypothetical being that is physically identical to and indistinguishable from a normal person but does not have conscious experience, qualia, or sentience. 

Is this a true representation of what people actually are in this dream that we call reality?

You’re using hypothetical imagining to support your belief in solipsism, which is a hypothetical imagining. Only what’s actual will do. You’re inquiring a priori, that you have a conscious experience and maybe others don’t. That ‘you’ which ‘has’ a conscious experience is a concept consciousness is aware of. Not even. There’s no game, no thing imagined. Just This. 

The knower can never know there is no knower. 

[Tyler Durden]

@GreenWoods Yes, that seems like a reasonable thing to do to avoid destroying the illusion too soon.

@Nahm I still have to reach that level of understaning. Solipsism seems like a step into the right direction. After which I have to realise that even my own ego is a philosophical zombie.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Tyler Durden

[Nahm]

24 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I still have to reach that level of understaning. Solipsism seems like a step into the right direction. After which I have to realise that ever my own ego is a philosophical zombie.

“Level of understanding”, is hypothetical. Attempt to point to what you’re talking about to notice you’re making it up on the fly, right now. “It” does not exist. 

Solipsism, hypothetical. Point to it. 

“I”, the alleged one which “still has to reach”, which “has a direction to go in to find itself”, which “has an ego”, which is a “philosophical zombie”. 

If I was your friend and I cared about you, I’d ask what in the actual fuck are you even talking about too. 

The knower will never, and can never realize there is no knower. The knower simply continues knowing, asleep, wishing it wasn’t. 

“Not now, not this… some day, when I am x, when I have y, when I realize z.” - the knower. 

[Endangered-EGO]

@Tyler Durden Yes, but your body is also a philosophical zombie.

Nobody is inside of you and nobody is inside of everone else.

It's the most terrifying insight you can have.

When you have an insight into no-self you'll also realise that there are no other-selves.

The perceptual filter encompasses everything.