The Relationship between The Known and Unknown

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

One breath, one being, many faces.

? Ah yes indeed. Just One infinite terrified Being. Much love! Time to open the ashram and rejoice! 

[Someone here]

@Mason Riggle well.. Your dreams at night also appear "self-evident". Yet you don't think your dreams are actually happening, right? 

[Mason Riggle]

@Someone here as much as anything else is 'happening'.  Don't your dreams happen?

Don't confuse 'I am dreaming' (known) with 'the contents of my dream are real' (I could be confused about this, unknown). 

edit: when I say 'real' I mean, exist independently (separate from) of some experience of them. (a.k.a. not just a dream). 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Someone here]

@Mason Riggle how do you know you are not dreaming right now? What if all of reality is a hallucination and doesn't actually happen but only seems so? 

[Mason Riggle]

@Someone here I don't know I'm not dreaming right now. I could be a brain in a vat hallucinating this moment.  I DO know 'something seems to be happening'..  I openly admit I may be completely confused about what that something is. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Someone here]

@Mason Riggle

11 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Someone here I don't know I'm not dreaming right now. I could be a brain in a vat hallucinating this moment.  I DO know 'something seems to be happening'..  I openly admit I may be completely confused about what that something is. 

So you are basically saying I know this moment exists and it's happening yet you don't know it's context? 

[Mason Riggle]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Mason Riggle

So you are basically saying I know this moment exists and it's happening yet you don't know it's context? 

I don't know the character of the contents of experience.   When I see a duck, maybe it's just a really good animatronic model of a duck, maybe I'm hallucinating the duck... I can't be sure.. but the 'appearance of a duck' I'm sure of.. when a duck appears. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

I don't know the character of the contents of experience.   When I see a duck, maybe it's just a really good animatronic model of a duck, maybe I'm hallucinating the duck... I can't be sure.. but the 'appearance of a duck' I'm sure of.. when a duck appears. 

I got it. 

So basically you are sure of qualia..but you don't know the mechanics that generates it? 

 

[Nahm]

How to justify the murder of approximately three million six hundred thousand others:

“There are known knowns, things we know that we know; and there are known unknowns, things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns, things we do not know we don’t know.”

”The reality is…. the terrorists can attack any time at any minute 24 hours a day, using a variety of techniques, in any place at all. And it’s not possible to defend in every place, against every technique, against every conceivable approach. It means that you can’t stop every terrorist attack. Innocent men, women and children are going to be killed if terrorists are determined to do it.” 

I think the real key, the real brilliance, is you have to use the reason for your justified actions as the very reason you don’t have to testify, or, acknowledge truth. No one fear mongered will notice the justification loop. 

Hysterical. 

 

[Mason Riggle]

@Someone here I'm not sure how I can say it any other way.. 

I'm absolutely sure something seems to be happening right now.. I may be totally confused about what exactly that something is. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[ivankiss]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

? Ah yes indeed. Just One infinite terrified Being. Much love! Time to open the ashram and rejoice! 

Everyone is welcome in the house of God.

The terrified, broken and lost, especially.

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

@Mason Riggle

So you are basically saying I know this moment exists and it's happening yet you don't know it's context? 

What appears to be happening is obviously all there is, but it also isn't happening, and no one knows that. It's completely known already, but paradoxically, that knowing is empty of knowing... Just as nothing is empty of being nothing, is empty of any finitude, and is thus everything/infinite; timelessly all that appears to be.

Edited October 8, 2021 by The0Self

[ivankiss]

In your greatest moment of triumph:

Love is here.

In your darkest hour of terror and devastation:

Love is here.

Is Love known in your heart?

 

[Nahm]

39 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Everyone is welcome in the house of God.

The terrified, broken and lost, especially.

But I do. I see the justification loop like you see the sun. 

[ivankiss]

@Nahm I don't know what you're talking about. And it feels great.

[The0Self]

'Course you could say (un)knowing is all there is -- just as long as there's nothing that's not-it (and therefore if there's no not-it, there's no it), so of course nothing is (un)known.

See how the "(un)" doesn't actually even change anything.

Edited October 8, 2021 by The0Self