Zen Monks -- Stage Blue???

[Yali]

Quote

people who meditate regularly will move up by two stages within several years

then why are many Zen monks at Stage Blue? @Leo Gura

Edited October 7, 2021 by Yali

[Mosess]

i think it might be because they take meditation as a dogma.

"this is how you meditate and it is the only right way to do so".

 

[Porphyry Fedotov]

Maybe because the collective ego of many Zen traditions is at Stage Blue. Like look how life is organized in any Zen monastery - it's strictly hierarchical and rigorously ritualized

[Inliytened1]

@Yali here is a mind fuck..from the momk's POV does spiral dynamics even exist?

 

[Gesundheit2]

Not that I like or even agree with Spiral Dynamics, but I do wonder if there's a specific stage for people who take everything literally and miss the point of the communication. I've seen that in various stages, so I'm not sure if it's related in any way to a particular way of viewing the world.

[OneHandClap]

How do you know where Zen monks actually are on the spiral system? You can't experience their state of consciousness directly. Furthermore, Zen is esoteric because it acts to deconstruct literally all dogmas, systems, gradients, and ideas of "progress" in meditation. We can argue all day about whether Buddhist monks cling to that sort of thing, but Zen is pretty actively involved in breaking down dualities. Read a few koans or read the tales of actual Zen patriarchs if you doubt this. 

[Adamq8]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Not that I like or even agree with Spiral Dynamics, but I do wonder if there's a specific stage for people who take everything literally and miss the point of the communication. I've seen that in various stages, so I'm not sure if it's related in any way to a particular way of viewing the world.

Ive known many people like that, and all of them had a disorder named Aspberger in swedish, I don't really know the english word for it and I am to lazy atm to look it up ?

[silene]

@Adamq8  It's Aspergers in English too, I know what you mean about the literalism of people with it. 

And I don't think it's just Zen monks being stage blue, all monasteries I've come across have a lot of blue, but also some green because they're more surrendered to nature and don't fight it.