Andrew Yang starting a third party

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9pbfpuMAN4

Essentially Andrew Yang says he believes America is disintegrating and that because of the political duopoly politics has become 'theater' and the elite are making no actual effort to resolve the problems.

He goes into some detail here

https://www.andrewyang.com/blog/g3snyneafaf817fkkdsvpnf7w611w4

Quote

“How will we train Americans for the jobs of the future?” or “How will we overcome polarization and bring Americans together?” I’ve been asked these questions innumerable times over the past several years. The honest answers are “We probably won’t. It will almost certainly get worse.” I then talk bravely about the caring economy, vocational programs, changing the language of politics, or circumscribing social media. But none of those things will actually happen. By talking about them as if they were possible, I’m giving people a mistaken sense of reassurance. We have become a whole network of people bullshitting each other into believing that smart people are thinking about it and good things are happening that will address the problems. And then we all just go back to whatever we were doing.

With a third party he hopes to push for UBI, open primaries, and rank choice voting, which he says can begin addressing the issues.

Here is his response to accusations he will be a spoiler:

Is this the right move? Or is Andrew Yang wrong?

[Leo Gura]

Meh

He failed to get even 3% of the vote. He don't got the power.

The only ones who could start a 3rd party are Trump and Bernie.

[captainamerica]

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Meh

He failed to get even 3% of the vote. He don't got the power.

The only ones who could start a 3rd party are Trump and Bernie.

@Leo Gura Yeah but people like Bernie and AOC have idiot compassion. They are fools who will destroy the economy with their shitty technical implementations. Apparently they have nice intentions but that does not matter.

Some time ago AOC was criticized for her 40 trillion dollar bill requirement. Instead of learning from the criticism she started defending herself and made blunders by claiming to have found a 21 trillion dollar pie in the sky. For green new deal as well instead of learning from critics she said "I aM tHe BoSs". You can notice this pattern repeatedly. They never improve. 

Their followers think all the rich people are evil (apart from other negative beliefs around money and success). In truth most are good people and would not have been successful if they were not so. As leaders, it is their job to educate their followers. Not piggyback on them and end up hurting middle class, rich and poor alike. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by captainamerica

[Opo]

Imagine hearing Trump and Bernie in the same sentence and thinking that Bernie is the fool. 

[captainamerica]

51 minutes ago, Opo said:

Imagine hearing Trump and Bernie in the same sentence and thinking that Bernie is the fool. 

Trump is evil. Bernie is a fool.

The far-right does cruel things knowingly and is evil. (Indifference) The far-left does things that kill 10s of millions of people due to false utopian visions. (Insanity)

 

I know that you support capping billionaires' wealth so that you can be a millionaire and hence you support Bernie(or some of his policies atleast). But that will backfire as if you put a 1 billion USD cap then the founders with the most valuable companies won't go with an IPO. There are better business models then. This will reduce wealth avail. in the market, not increase it. Like if someone invented a product worth 100 billion and owns 50 percent of the company. With 50 billion worth of a share in ones own company why would anyone go for an IPO just to decrease shares or ownership in his/her own company?

Edited October 6, 2021 by captainamerica

[Opo]

2 hours ago, captainamerica said:

I know that you support capping billionaires' wealth so that you can be a millionaire 

Lmao. 

Who are you arguing with? 

[captainamerica]

9 minutes ago, Opo said:

Lmao. 

Who are you arguing with? 

@Opo You don't want the monies?

[PurpleTree]

good move

maybe in a decade or two the party can become big enough to change something

[DocWatts]

6 hours ago, captainamerica said:

Trump is evil. Bernie is a fool.

The far-right does cruel things knowingly and is evil. (Indifference) The far-left does things that kill 10s of millions of people due to false utopian visions. (Insanity)

If you think Bernie is far Left, then it's likely you've been misinformed and propagandized by Right leaning media. The intentional conflation of Social Democracy (ie the thing Bernie is advocating for) with Soviet style dictatorships is a common Bad Faith tactic used by the Right (including both Nationalists and Libertarians).

None of the policies that Bernie is advocating for would be controversial in places like Canada, Germany, or Norway (which by the way are freer and have a better standard of living for ordinary people than America does). Things like Universal Health Care and publicly funded College Education for people supposedly living in the wealthiest country on the planet are hardly Utopian, nor are they unreasonable.

A system which seems to humanize Capitalism by shaving down its rough edges (which is all that Social Democracy really is when you come down to it) is by no means Far Left, as that term is understood by most of the rest of the world.

Actual Far Left utopianism of the kind that the Right loves to fearmonger over (ie those seeking to abolish Capitalism and radically remake society along Marxist lines) is almost non-existent in the American political landscape, except in the collective imaginations of pundits.

Edited October 6, 2021 by DocWatts

[DocWatts]

As to Yang, if his goal is to make himself politically irrelevant, starting a third party seems like a surefire way to not make much of an impact on the political landscape.

Seems like a shame, since he did more than any other person to push the idea of UBI in to the mainstream during the democratic primaries.

Edited October 6, 2021 by DocWatts

[newparadigms]

For me personally it's not hard to dump social media.

[Harlen Kelly]

14 hours ago, captainamerica said:

Yeah but people like Bernie and AOC have idiot compassion. They are fools who will destroy the economy with their shitty technical implementations. Apparently they have nice intentions but that does not matter.

Where do you get your political information from besides fox news and reactionary channels?

Mention 1 '' shitty technical implementations '' from Bernie that will ''destroy'' the economy.........

Edited October 6, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[aurum]

@Raze

I like Yang but I’m not convinced starting another party is really a great solution.

We already have progressive, unknown parties. Unless there are serious irreconcilable differences, progressives should be uniting, not continuing to split themselves.

And considering he didn’t win mayor of New York, it’s dubious how much political clout he has to pull this off.

[Heinrich Faust]

On 6.10.2021 at 2:08 PM, captainamerica said:

The far-left

Look at any foreign country, and you'll notice, that America has no far-left. From a European perspective, there's just a right-wing and a centre party, and Bernie Sanders would be a moderate leftist.
Just today, I stumbled over this article, which states that the big German conservative party is more left-wing than the Democrats:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/counterpoint-20211001-german-election

On 6.10.2021 at 7:40 AM, Raze said:

Essentially Andrew Yang says he believes America is disintegrating and that because of the political duopoly politics has become 'theater' and the elite are making no actual effort to resolve the problems.

In the current American election system, it's extremely hard to have more than two parties. If a third party would rise, probably, one of the old parties would fall.

[Willie]

Here he makes some good points based on his experiences in both campaigns about how not only is our political system disintegrating, but so is the entire media landscape.  Polarization and instability are becoming the status quo, and it needs to change one way or another. His new party sounds like a good change to me!

https://samharris.org/podcasts/262-future-american-democracy/

[captainamerica]

On 07/10/2021 at 2:05 AM, Harlen Kelly said:

Where do you get your political information from besides fox news and reactionary channels?

 

Following news channels and generic polarized information is for normies.

Why do self-actualization work if the standards are that low?

On 07/10/2021 at 2:05 AM, Harlen Kelly said:

Where do you get your political information from besides fox news and reactionary channels?

Mention 1 '' shitty technical implementations '' from Bernie that will ''destroy'' the economy.........

Wrong implementation of Free College Education: College costs have risen exponentially (10-25 times of what it should be) because the govt. subsidizes loans incorrectly thereby increasing demand at a wrong price instead or creating an artificial demand instead of market demand which would lead to drastically lower costs. Apart from this the 1.4 trillion USD student debt reduces national saving leading to drastic reduction in innovation, job creation, wealth creation, housing etc. in the long term. The student loan crisis is because of this reason as well. Bernie's policy if added on top of this will be like lighting a cigarette at a gas pump. It will cause explosions in the economy in terms of collective wealth, housing, jobs etc.

Wrong Taxation Policy with Elizabeth Warren: It taxes the same income multiple times. Once every year. So for the same income a person will pay a tax 10s of times. 6 percent per year is about 90 percent tax. This is called Confiscatory Tax and not Progressive Tax. You can read about its effects. This destroys economies. On top of that there is 20 percent capital gains tax. And so on. So the effective tax rate is about 98-99 percent tax in total. Enough to destroy job/wealth creation completely.

Wrong Taxation Policy for his own constituents: He successfully increased tax rate from 11 percent to about 20 percent I believe. But the tax revenue decreased after this. The fact that this will happen was already known beforehand. But because of his ideology he won't learn. Increasing tax rate does not necessarily increase tax revenue. In fact counteractively it decreases it. (in such cases) Every thing in life is counterintuitive and requires a systems thinking perspective health, money, quantum physics, psychology, attraction theory etc. But Taxation cannot be counter-intuitive because it hurts our feelings. Right?

Wrong implementation for affordable housing:  The reason why the American people cannot afford to buy houses is because of the unbacked printing of dollars. This devalues the currency while pumping price of assets like houses, stocks etc. by 100s of percent. This is what has happened now. Like in the pandemic alone the Feds printed 30 percent of the money supply. In other words fed has increased the cost of houses by multiple times throughout these 2 decades. Without solving this trying to funnel tax payers dollars into a housing policy like he is doing is like adding fuel to the fire. Because this adds to the skyrocketing prizes of assets even more.

Propagation of Shit-Grade understanding of Economics: The government printing money increases the on paper value of stocks, houses and other assets. But in real terms the value goes down. If I have an asset worth 10 USD and the govt. prints 30 percent of the money supply without backing it up properly(called quantitative easing) then the asset will cost about 12-14 USD but will now have the purchasing power of 7-8 USD. So it is actually a loss. About 2020 the govt. printed trillions of dollars(about 30 percent of the money supply in US) and devalued its own currency thus increasing the cost of all assets significantly. In the pandemic when billionaires, millionaires, house owners etc. 100s of billions for almost all of them it was actually a loss. If before pandemic the stock had purchasing power of 100 billion now it is about 70 or so billion. Even if on paper it is worth 140 Billion. This creates system wide losses for the poor, adds to the shrinking middle class problem and in fact makes business hard for most of the rich people.  But instead of real understanding Bernie polarized people even more with stupid things like the rich got richer when in fact the purchasing power is in fact decreased. The difference in purchasing power goes to the govt. and financial institutions/banks, not rich entrepreneurs/poor/middle class. Here increasing taxation creates even more problems. It leads to recessions or long term downward spirals in the economy. This is counter-intuitive. Yet it is a fundamental of economics. This is the ABCs of economics. This may not be as simple to understand as the alphabet but it is certainly as fundamental as the alphabet itself. Without it there is just mental masturbation.

This wrong understanding eventually polarizes voters to vote for policy or candidates against their interests in real life but the emotional appeal makes it looks like it is a ticket to solve all their problems forever. There are only 2 cases possible from there: a. Either Bernie is doing it consciously in that case he is incompetent. b. Or these effects will manifest in policy votes to other far-left candidates like AOC and he is not aware of this/does not mean this. If he is not aware of such a level of disaster then again he is incompetent.

He supports the Green New Deal which is full of blunders like above. Green New Deal is full of false promises and incorrect economical foundations like the above exaample.

Apart from that consistently wrong cost estimates for bill, Undermining Innovation, supporting far-left candidates like AOC, etc. Many others infact. 

Basically his whole world view, in the current context, is intellectually corrupt.

AOC and Bernie's economic understanding will bankrupt America. Thanks to the heavens they are unable to get much power today. But still a danger for future generations.

Edited October 8, 2021 by captainamerica

[captainamerica]

@DocWatts Thank you for your post. I appreciate it.

I am not sure when can I reply to your post. Let me see.

The prob. with your posts that I have is unlike some other members your posts are wrong but complex. Because of complexity, there are about 5 fundamental errors, instead of one or a couple, in one of your posts. How can I discuss 5 fundamental errors per one post of yours? Instead of reply I have to type an essay. I have outlined examples let me see when I can post them.

[DocWatts]

@captainamerica I suppose I would challenge you then to explain why the United States should not attempt to implement aspects of Social Democracy that have been successfully implemented in much of the rest of the world, when their US counterparts are dysfunctional in glaringly obvious ways and are often predatory as well (US for-profit health care being a prime example, though this could also be extended to higher education and a number of other institutions). 

You make an interesting point in an earlier post about easy availability of loans inflating the cost of higher education. While that's undeniably true, it overlooks the fact that public funding for higher education has been steadily declining for decades, also driving up the cost. If anything the student loan fiasco just makes a stronger argument for full public funding for higher education, rather than attempting to use loans as a bandaid instead of overhauling higher education in a more systemic way.

I've yet to see a convincing argument as to why the US shouldn't look to rest of the world for models that have proven highly successful in a number of countries as inspiration for how our own systems could be improved.

If I'm mischaracterizing your views on any of this I'll apologize in advance, so please feel free to correct me. 

Also thanks for keeping our disagreements (such that we have) respectful, makes forum interactions much more productive for everyone.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by DocWatts