How are you working on being a better Ally toward BIPOC

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

yea but it was probably done in favour of business, so that whites didn't feel too bad about keep doing it because that would have been bad for business

was it extremely racist? obviously

but ask yourself this, what do people care more about, riches or races?

What is your point? Should we stop caring about systemic racism?

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What is your point? Should we stop caring about systemic racism?

no but i think you're just causing more division with this "Karen" "ally for bipoc" "old white men" etc. talk

i'm just saying yea change the jail system and change what needs to be changed

but don't make everything racial as i said a white kid with no father and a mom on drugs is more in need of "allies" than a black lawyer and his intact family.

[Carl-Richard]

19 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

no but i think you're just causing more division with this "Karen" "ally for bipoc" "old white men" etc. talk

Those are academic terms used in legitimate fields of research and the sociopolitical efforts associated with them. It's not something out of Twitter. It's created by dedicated people who work closely with the issues at hand. I doubt you have any problems with the jargon coming from the hard sciences, so I don't see the problem here.

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 I doubt you have any problems with the jargon coming from the hard sciences, so I don't see the problem here.

Why i have a problem with Karen, old white men etc.? because imo it's racist 

Why i have a problem with being a better ally for BIPOC (and not for others who might need it more), because imo it's too racial and divisive

 

 

[supremeyingyang]

@PurpleTree

Word.

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

no but i think you're just causing more division with this "Karen" "ally for bipoc" "old white men" etc. talk

@Carl-Richard

If we have a Problem, we can find 2 different terms for it. We could even agree on everything but how to solve it. Why would I agree on your term if I think the immanent solution of that term won't work?

To use a term over a other is a design decision. So don't be surprised if people don't want to use your terms, because they may don't agree with the conclusion you present.

 

[Opo]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

topic title

He gave his personal definition. 

What is yours? 

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Why i have a problem with being a better ally for BIPOC (and not for others who might need it more), because imo it's too racial and divisive

If you choose to help poor people, does that mean you're hurting rich people?

[Harlen Kelly]

4 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

but don't make everything racial as i said a white kid with no father and a mom on drugs is more in need of "allies" than a black lawyer and his intact family.

Maybe, just maybe, the reason why is because one group was being disproportionally marginalized and governmentally oppressed for 100s of years, which has lead to a disproportionate level of inequality between groups that historically have been more oppressed compared to other groups that did not suffer the continuous oppression. 

What actually is divisive Purpletree is first invalidating the marginalization that has been inflicted on particular groups of people for hundreds of years and secondly invalidating the present ramifications of that marginalization, that's not only divisive, it's uncaring and devoid of basic compassion. 

The video on Systemic Thinking by Leo will do wonders to your thought patterns. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, supremeyingyang said:

If we have a Problem, we can find 2 different terms for it. We could even agree on everything but how to solve it. Why would I agree on your term if I think the immanent solution of that term won't work?

To use a term over a other is a design decision. So don't be surprised if people don't want to use your terms, because they may don't agree with the conclusion you present.

It's weird, because when we're talking about for instance covid19, nobody bats an eye when you mention DNA, RNA, viral load, gain of function research, evolutionary escape etc., but somehow when it comes to social issues, academic words suddenly become extremely problematic. Also, where did all the people go who love to say "listen to the scientists!" while furthering transphobia by misappropriating biological terms like "chromosomes", "reproductive organs" and "sex hormones"? This has nothing to do with words, but everything to do with values.

[aurum]

4 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Why i have a problem with being a better ally for BIPOC (and not for others who might need it more), because imo it's too racial and divisive

 

Being an ally is about far more than supporting POC financially. In fact I would say that’s only a small piece of it.

We are talking about healing cultural and collective wounding.

Us (white people) basically built our entire nation on oppressing POC.

Doesn’t mean white people are inherently evil. But there’s still major wounding here that has not been addressed. It’s palpable.

[DocWatts]

A big part of it is being willing to take collective responsibility for societal problems, and being mindful of your own privilege.

But it also involves having enough humility to listen to people whose experiences may be very different from your own, and putting the effort in to understand what issues and challenges marginalized communities face.

[supremeyingyang]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Also, where did all the people go who love to say "listen to the scientists!" while furthering transphobia by misappropriating biological terms like "chromosomes", "reproductive organs" and "sex hormones"? This has nothing to do with words, but everything to do with values.

In that case science get's reduced to a 'I win the discussion' Joker, a bad one because everybody can look up some weirdo with a PHD.

Science is not immune. Don't forget how racism was considered "proved" by some sciences 100 Years ago. Garbage.

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's weird, because when we're talking about for instance covid19, nobody bats an eye when you mention DNA, RNA, viral load, gain of function research, evolutionary escape etc., but somehow when it comes to social issues, academic words suddenly become extremely problematic.

In Germany we have a significant minority who argues against the most popular scientific explanation of covid. Some are idiots, but some are not. It does not matters. Same mechanics: the use of words that have conclusion in build.

If we get vaccinated, we show SOLIDARITY => If you don't get vaccinated, you show the opposite of SOLIDARITY => it's okay to be condecending to those who don't vaccinate

By the way I'm vaccinated and I think it it's at this point ones personal decision.

 

 

[PurpleTree]

8 hours ago, aurum said:

Being an ally is about far more than supporting POC financially. In fact I would say that’s only a small piece of it.

a white kid from a broken home also needs more than just money

needs time and love etc. 

8 hours ago, aurum said:

Us (white people) basically built our entire nation on oppressing POC.

well i'm not a part of your nation so it's whatever

white people are not inherently evil? wow thanks i never would have thought that, thanks for giving me this valuable information 

[Harlen Kelly]

32 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

white people are not inherently evil? wow thanks i never would have thought that, thanks for giving me this valuable information 

You are not even attempting to understand what is being discussed.

[PurpleTree]

7 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

You are not even attempting to understand what is being discussed.

nope i think you're not understanding it

[aurum]

10 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

a white kid from a broken home also needs more than just money

needs time and love etc. 

Of course, no one said otherwise.

Love is a universal need.

But saying “well white people need X too!” allows you to disregard historical / current injustices and frame the situation as if things are now totally equal and healed. This is a false frame. And it comes off as childish or even mildly narcissistic.

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

Of course, no one said otherwise.

Love is a universal need.

But saying “well white people need X too!” allows you to disregard historical / current injustices and frame the situation as if things are now totally equal and healed. This is a false frame. And it comes off as childish or even mildly narcissistic.

 

 

and i feel most of this stuff is just silly and virtue signaling, because people want be accepted, seen as "nice people" and to feel better about themselves

 

are these good allies?

 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by PurpleTree

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

and i feel most of this stuff is just silly and virtue signaling, because people want to feel better about themselves

Then educate yourself.

https://www.amazon.com/Community-Psychology-Pursuit-Liberation-Well-Being/dp/1137464097#

Quote

Approach to Addressing Social Issues, Types of Intervention and the Role of the Professional

When social issues are framed in an individualistic way, then the ways these issues are being approached also tend to be individualistic, such as providing counseling services for newcomers. While these types of support can be of value to newcomers, a key value for community psychologists is to work with marginalized groups as allies in a process of empowerment that enables marginalized communities to shift power structures and transform their oppressive contexts into fair multicultural ones. Being an ally means to recognize your own relative privilege and to use your social power to support marginalized groups. In this role you work in partnership with the communities recognizing the important of the communities' agency in leading their own liberation and empowerment process.

(Riemer et. al., 2020, p. 12).

 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Then educate yourself.

https://www.amazon.com/Community-Psychology-Pursuit-Liberation-Well-Being/dp/1137464097#

 

that's not education that's nonsense and a waste of time IMO

 

[Carl-Richard]

17 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

that's not education that's nonsense and a waste of time IMO

Why?