Maybe not all people can awaken, no Matter how hard they try.

[Javfly33]

It seems awakening its something very deterministic on genetics.

If you've been in this forum for some time, you Will see that there is this Group of members Who has apparently awoken ( for example a lot of the moderators which are regular on this subforum) and they are always very sure on What to reply on spirituality tópics. First i dismissed this people As deluded and narcissistic, But recently i have opened my mind that they might really have awoken, and we just havent (the rest of us).

Having in mind that these people havent neccesary meditated more, taking more Psychedelics , or suffered more than me, YET THEY HAVE BEING ABLE TO AWAKEN and not me, then i can open myself to the terrible possibility that i Will never understand reality or that "death is an illusion". 

I probably Will be Able to live Happy and find Joy in Life, in fact my plans i have for Life doesnt include as mandatory to reach Enlightment, But honestly its really really fucking sad that knowing that i always had this inclination towards knowing that is reality, ill never get It. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Javfly33

[Tyler Durden]

How can you be sure they are real people who got enlightened and not just lines of text appearing on your screen? I'm not saying that's true, I'm just asking you to take that option into consideration. Maybe it's only God playing games with itself.

[Batman]

Your assumed impossibility to awaken exist in the exact same place where the possibility to awaken exist.

 

[Javfly33]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

How can you be sure they are real people who got enlightened and not just lines of text appearing on your screen? I'm not saying that's true, I'm just asking you to take that option into consideration. Maybe it's only God playing games with itself.

Maybe, or maybe not. 

I think Awakening should be more than just plain Solipsism...

[Jakuchu]

You = Existence = Awakening 

Saying You can not awaken is like saying You can't be You, but You are You

Awakening is not something that builds on top of your current state. It is the basis of what you are. It's like being drunk and becoming sober again. Becoming sober is not something that builds on top of being drunk. Your thoughts are the intoxication. And thinking along the lines of "I will never awaken" is just more intoxication

Watch out, you are deceiving yourself by telling yourself "I will never awaken" and that "I don't have the right genetics". Genetics have nothing to do with it. This to me is a pretty materialistic way of viewing awakening. You are you, regardless of genetics 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Jakuchu

[Tyler Durden]

15 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Maybe, or maybe not. 

I think Awakening should be more than just plain Solipsism...

I'm not suggesting solipsism, that would mean your ego is real which is not the case. Ultimately, awakening should include God realisation and then you'll come to the conclusion that all those enlightened persons were actually dreamed/imagined by You.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Tyler Durden

[Tim R]

Quote

There's nothing to get rid of. It's an illusion. But you still want to ask „how to stop the illusion?“ Who's asking?

I mean, do you think in the ordinary sense in which you use the word „I“, how can „I“ stop identifying myself with the wrong me?

Well the answer is simply: you can't.

Now the Christians put this in their way when they say that the mystical experience is a gift of divine grace. Man as such cannot achieve this experience. It is a gift of God and if God doesn't give it to you, there's no way of getting it. Now that is solidly true. You can't do anything about it because you don't exist.

„Well“, you say, „that's pretty depressing news“. But the whole point is that it isn't depressing news. It is the joyous news!

There's a Zen poem which puts it like this: „you cannot catch hold of it nor can you get rid of it. In not being able to get it you get it."

This whole feeling is what Krishnamurti is trying to explain to people when he says: „why do you ask for a method?“ There is no method. All methods are simply gimmicks for strengthening your ego. „So how do we not do that?“ He says: „You're still asking for a method. There is no method. If you really understand what your „I“ is, you will see; there is no method.

„But... this is so so sad?...“

But it's not! This is the gospel! The good news! Because if you cannot achieve it, if you cannot transform yourself, that means that the main obstacle to mystical vision has collapsed. That was „you“.

 

[Endangered-EGO]

@Javfly33 

Good, now feel right into that, what you'vre wrote. That "disenchantment". Misery, depression. Nothing will free you, it's fucking hopeless. You see how much time you've wasted? You can no longer do that and you've realised it.

Those very very bad feelings and thoughts want to show themselves. Sit down and let them torture you. That's the path!

 

-Nibbida ñana - Knowledge of disenchantment/disgust with conditioned states

YOU'RE EXACTLY HERE ABOVE.

Now you're gonna give up and get:

 

-Muncitukamayata ñana - Knowledge of Desire for Deliverance, the desire to abandon the worldly state (for nibbana) arises.

-Patisankha ñana - Knowledge of re-investigation of the path. This instills a decision to practice further.

 

After that, God's Grace is gonna show up and.

 

-Sankharupekha ñana - Knowledge which regards mental and physical states with equanimity.

[Leo Gura]

Statistically speaking most people won't get it. But that's because most people don't really want it.

If you want it, you can get it.

Be careful with your limiting beliefs which create a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you think you'll fail then you've already failed. You need to have 100% confidence here. It needs to be non-negotiable for you. Don't even allow your mind to entertain the idea that you won't get it.

Then again, if you don't really want it (be honest), then maybe just focus on other things. It's okay if you don't want it.

[Moksha]

Awakening is not an achievement, it is a realization. If you are proud about awakening, you aren't awake.

Ironically, the more you chase awakening, the more it eludes you. The problem is seeing it as a state to be achieved, rather than realizing the truth is already here, within you, when you are ready to see it.

It will happen when it is supposed to happen. Your happiness doesn't depend upon it. Find joy in every step of the journey, and that realization itself will open your eyes.

[Endangered-EGO]

@Leo Gura No! What he is going through IS necessary for total surrender.

Most people, including Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti went through that giving-up.

[Breakingthewall]

your inability to wake up is because you are overwhelmed by "real" problems and trauma to solve. Life is long, those problems will eventually lose their venom and take the pressure off you from focusing on this. the time will come when everything flows naturally, all you are doing is a preparation for that

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@Leo Gura No! What he is going through IS necessary for total surrender.

Most people, including Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti went through that giving-up.

I don't think he's anywhere at that stage. He's doubting just starting the path. You are talking about some Dark Night of the Soul stuff.

[mandyjw]

You think genetics are your code, that they were there before you, or combined to make you, like the air, earth and water was there before you, and combined to make you. But you make it so, it is after YOU that these things ARE. Your body is not aware. YOU are aware of it. 

If you were to create a story about how you had great or limiting genetics, you'd be the Author of that story. You are the Author of success and failure, beyond them both. Already. You cannot lose. 

[Juliano Zn]

@Javfly33 You've been in this forum for only 3 years. How long have you been taking psychs and doing spiritual work?

Remember that even for Leo it took more than a decade maybe?!

And also, why be so obsessed about this, if you're God you WILL awaken eventually.

[VeganAwake]

Well its wild and crazy and completely outside the parameters of the conventional way of looking at things, so I wouldn't be too hard on yourself.

It's a real trip because on one hand the seeking for it perpetuates the belief that there is a real individual that can one day find it.

And on the other hand you shouldn't seek it unless you seek it like a man whose hair is on fire seeks a pond.

It's completely illogical and when it's recognized its simultaneously realized that nothing actually happened or ever needed to.

❤

 

[Endangered-EGO]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't think he's anywhere at that stage. He's doubting just starting the path. You are talking about some Dark Night of the Soul stuff.

@Leo Gura There are life cycles, monthly cycles, weekly cicles, daily cicles and meditative cycles of the dark night.

Also, I think the only difference between pre and post awakening is simply that someone in pre awakening, isn't sufficiently pushed through that "misery"-stage. There's just gonna be avoidance.

No pre-awakened person is gonna have the faith/trust/wisdom to go fully through misery, then giving up life-contemplating suicide and then finally going through everything again.

Also it's hard to be mindful of those "steps" because every step of the dark night is like a break saying "no, don't do that".

First thing is to be able to acknowledge the difference between disenchantment, desire for deliverance and reobservation in personal experience.

That process is torturing the ego into submission.

I could probably sit down tommorow, and go through all of the dark night insights while believing that it's real suffering up into Equanimity in 1 hour.

 

If he didn't have an awakening yet, the best way is still to meditate through the sufferin of mind. Then there's space for awakening.

 

[Javfly33]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

your inability to wake up is because you are overwhelmed by "real" problems and trauma to solve. Life is long, those problems will eventually lose their venom and take the pressure off you from focusing on this. the time will come when everything flows naturally, all you are doing is a preparation for that

That makes a lot of sense i agree ?

[Proserpina]

I understand the feeling.  I feel similarly.  

But a part of me is like, who cares? 

If I can awaken enough to where pain and suffering no longer have me hostage and everything is beautiful then who cares if I can't be up to these people's level. 

I know I have limitations (my Dad has a very low IQ) but at the end of the day I'm not here to have some fancy understanding I can never reach due to poor genetics

Edited October 4, 2021 by Proserpina

[AndylizedAAY]

9 hours ago, Juliano Zn said:

@Javfly33 You've been in this forum for only 3 years. How long have you been taking psychs and doing spiritual work?

Remember that even for Leo it took more than a decade maybe?!

And also, why be so obsessed about this, if you're God you WILL awaken eventually.

Are you comparing 3 years to more than a decade? 3 years is still a lot to me and you have less than 100 posts on this forum. Have you been observing for more than 3 years all of this time? If I will awaken eventually, the latest it can be is if I "physically die" right? This would probably be irrelevant to what the user probably meant since the user is making no claims about the afterlife. If I will awaken eventually, are you talking about while I am still alive? How do you know that everyone has awakened during his/her life? Do you just believe that on principle?