Meditating 2 Hours Every Day - 1 Year Later (& Psychedelics vs. Meditation)

[Consilience]

I don't normally feel a need to share, but I felt a deep calling to share this one with the community. I just released a video on my YouTube channel about my experiences meditating 2 hours per day for a year. If you're interested in hearing about what deep, consistent meditation practice looks like, check it out. If not, you still may find the below post useful.

Below, I elaborate on some of recent feelings regarding the forum and this whole meditation vs. psychedelics debate, as well as share more in depth about my meditation journey.

Lately, there seems to be a growing chasm in the Actualized.org community regarding psychedelics and then other spiritual practices such as meditation. In one camp, we have people raving about the power of psychedelics, how they provide higher levels of awakening, raise consciousness to higher degrees and how psychedelics more or less shit on other sober practices like meditation, being far superior for Spiritual Awakening or more recently "God Realization." In the other camp, you have people who are against this growing sentiment regarding psychedelics. I seem to have fallen into the latter camp.

Initially, I was extremely pro-psychedelics, believing spiritual teachers who more or less dismissed them were full of shit. Let me be clear, I am still pro-psychedelics and still believe many spiritual teachers who dismiss them are full of shit. I have achieved enormous amounts of healing, enormous amounts of spiritual growth, have elevated my baseline levels of compassion and understanding using these tools to degrees that I cannot attribute to anything other than psychedelics. They've propelled my meditation practice into levels and depths that I do not see other meditators achieving, even serious practitioners with more experience. They've tested the limits of my sanity, broken my conceptual paradigms over and over, provided absurdly magical, mystical, and profound journeys into the fringes of consciousness… The journeying has been utterly beautiful and I still have every intention to continue their use for these purposes of exploration. At the very least, they're fun! And even after some heart wrenchingly dark trips, like borderline traumatizing trips that almost feel like they've left scars on the energy body/soul, all of my trips have been nectar for the True Self awakening to what it really is.

However, after my first 9 day vipassana meditation retreat, there was a 180 degree paradigm shift. Originally, I was using meditation as a tool to propel my psychedelic journeying to deeper levels. I was successful; the harder I meditated, the deeper my trips became. Yet after that retreat, something very primordially deep shifted, almost like an internal earthquake, a transformation at the level of soul, at a level of self identity which transcends individual lifetimes and is instead the self activity driving reincarnation into subsequent and past lives (I don't know the validity of this necessarily, only that the experience points to something 'like' that). I spent 5 straight days in the most heightened states of consciousness I've ever experienced, essentially tripping balls while being completely sober. Every time I sat to formally practice, reality would just melt into and out of itself. My concentration had penetrated so deeply into the present moment, I was just watching infinite intelligence spontaneously emerge, moment by moment, while simultaneously being palpably conscious of the boundless, formless void of God as giving rise and fall to these microscopically transient fluctuations of formed experience. The space of consciousness would boundlessly expand into infinity as the formless jhanas, and contract into a singularity of non-existence… It is a challenge using words to describe just how profoundly powerful these meditative states really were. Since this retreat and after 2 other vipassana retreats within the span of the next 5 months, these types of mystical experiences have become regular. By the end of this first retreat, I realized psychedelics are tools for plunging more deeply into meditation first and foremost, not the other way around. While rigorous meditation will certainly facilitate deeper trips, meditation will also uproot the attachment to psychedelics as the means by which we awaken to God.

Though I do respect the authority and individuality of everyone's path, from what I read on the forum, Leo and those who align with Leo's paradigm have vastly underestimated the potential for meditation and utterly misunderstood the true nature of God. It is very clear to me Leo understands the mechanics of God, his videos are evidence of this, but true understanding of God is the embodiment of God in all moments, not in the transient states of psychedelic trips nor the intellectual conceptualizations about reality after the fact. Furthermore, the paradigm that claims it understands God because of psychedelics and meditation is peanuts in comparison is a paradigm NOT based in direct experience. It is a paradigm based on reifications of self that happen when the ego structure reforms after a deep psychedelic trip. Without the appropriate attentional skills (mindfulness) sober meditation trains, this paradigm occurs at an unconscious level, at a belief level, at a level that is silently creating the context by which psychedelic experiences are conceptualized after the fact.

Of course such an explicit criticism will most likely be met with opposition by the ego structure, an authority built behind "You don't know what you're talking about, I've achieved levels so far beyond all teachers, teaching or techniques. Your awakening is far less than mine! Etc. Etc." But please keep in mind, I have enormous experience with tripping. Not just tripping, tripping fucking balls. Please look at my past trip reports as evidence. This position I'm coming from is from the very principles Leo promotes - radical open-mindedness, experimentation, rigorous work ethic, balance, taking my own authority, existential curiosity for knowing what is really true.

 

Now let's be clear -

 

The True Nature of God

God is none other than this moment, exactly as it is.

This moment, exactly as it is appearing in all of its ignorance, entanglement, delusion, and suffering is an expression of divine perfection, as none other than the love of God.

The capacity for God to awaken to itself is infinite.

The context out of which experience expands out of, and contracts back into, moment by moment, is God.

You as what you really are, is God.

God is not an ego structure, but an ego structure is God.

God is Mind.
The human mind is not God, but arises out of God, as God.

God is pure intelligence.

God is pure imagination, manifest.

God is pure formlessness, unmanifest.

 

The True Nature of Love

Love is that which holds space for all states of consciousness.

When the mind stops pushing and pulling at experience through the contraction of craving and aversion, the surface level of the human mind slowly comes into union with God's Love. In Buddhism this is referred to as Equanimity.

Equanimity is Love. As the activities of the human mind cultivate Equanimity, you are merging into the union with divine, Absolute Love.

Notice, the Universe never fights with itself; the actuality of what is happening is the IS exactly as it is appearing as itself. As the Universe permits the actuality of what is, is radical permission of all form, as Love. A mind which radically permits all form, regardless of state, is a mind that embodies Absolute Love. This form of love is heart wrenching, heart cracking because it recognizes the necessity, role, and beauty of horror, delusion, suffering, atrocity.

All states of consciousness are Loved, recognized in divine equilibrium.

Absolute Love is not an emotion, perception, or transient form, but the context out of which all forms appear.

 

The True Nature of Self

You are the field from which all arises, passes, emerges, and vanishes.

You are comprehensible through direct incomprehension.

You are the expansion and contraction of all phenomena.

You are the expansion and contraction as all phenomena.

You are the context out of which all phenomena expand and contract.

You are the witness that sees self activity act its drama.

You are the witness, witnessing, and witnessed.

You are the witness of the witness.

You are the space from which time and space manifest themselves into and out of existence.

You are the womb, the creator, the created, simultaneously.

You are the grain of sand and the Sahara. 

You are the wave in the ocean and the ocean.

You are paradox itself.

You are the absolute unknown mystery, as well as the humility and arrogance that proports to understand.

You are the nothing at all, the still point where all points of reality envelope, develop and exist as unmanifest potentiality.

You are yourself, exactly where you are, as you are.

You are always here; you are always now.

You could never have been more or less you.

If these types of insights and pointers are only deeply available through psychedelics, if you believe you cannot become palpably conscious of these insights and pointers through meditation, then your paradigm may very well be backwards. A psychedelic insight's true utility is to bring back the insight into lived, everyday, mundane experience. How can we effectively do that? Meditation. A LOT of meditation.

There are two fundamental lessons we will learn from deep meditation practice.

1) Meditation can take us into states rivaling and surpassing the profundity of psychedelics, while doing so in a way which actually trains the mind to access these states without the need for psychedelics.

2) Right where we are, exactly as we are, is Absolute Truth. This is the beginning of the final awakening that 'what we are' truly seeks. The self activity keeps going, the dramas of life keep playing. The awakenings pull us ever deeply into the unimaginable depths of consciousness, yet on some level 'what we are' understands that what it is cannot exclude even the most unconscious of states.

The appreciation I have for Actualized.org is ineffable. I found Leo at an inflection point in my life, a point where I was so lost. It was Leo's brash, borderline arrogant teaching style that cracked open my mind to start questioning itself. It was Leo's wit and philosophical intelligence that forced me to challenge my long held intellectual positions about the nature of self, mind, and consciousness. It was Leo's channel that invigorated my interest in psychedelics and facilitated a Hero's journey across the internal cosmos. It was Leo's channel that lead me to understand my own authority and limitation. It was Leo's channel that challenged me to become a true sage, mystic, and lover of Truth. It was Leo's channel that propelled me to take self-actualization and the cornerstone practice of meditation even more seriously.

But it is precisely because of Leo that I write these words. It is precisely because I Leo that I so vehemently disagree with the direction this forum is heading. And in a sense, I'm writing into the collective here, urging, challenging and demanding that this community, an actual gem for humanity, not get pulled off track.

And yet Actualized.org will do and become whatever it will. As a move and practice of detachment, and love, I won't be spending as nearly as much energy trying to pull back on the collective ego that is caught in the hamster wheel of samsara, constantly seeking the illusion of deeper, more grandiose awakenings. As long as you're meditating, you will awaken to infinite degrees of consciousness until you die; you don't need psychedelics to do it. And as you're awakening to the true nature of God, you will lose attachment to all of it.

When you finally awaken, you will let yourself unfold in its own time, in its own sequence.

When you finally awaken, you will recognizing the perfection of every step up the mountain, honoring the necessity of every grain of sand, blessing the flow of each drop in the ocean.

 

Unity will emerge

As infinity unfolds

Life will be death

And all states, surrendered

 

All moments will be one

A seeking which as was sought

All delusions to be none

Contractions of craving

Finally, undone

 

As children, we'll keep growing

Expanding evermore

But in the light of Truth,

Does this moment truly soar

In the Love of God

Perfection's indiscriminate pour

 

I am happy to answer any questions below.

I wish all of you well on your path. Perhaps you may find value in my perspective, perhaps not. Thank you for your path, thank you for your dharma, in whatever form it takes on.

With Love,

You

 

[Adamq8]

This was hands down the best post ive ever read on this forum,  amazing! ?

Powerful message, source is vibrantly awake within you.

Meditation is amazing, and one can greatly benefit from them both, i would also say that, Meditation in a way is what we are, psychedelics shows us in a different way, like what the nature of YOU/Reality is but it is happening at insane speeds and one can't hold it, same can happen in meditation ofcourse, but I see meditation as what we are,  awake presence, while psychedelics can show us in an instant what we can be and are.

Both is so necessary for each other in a way, truly, like Ying and Yang, but in the end psychedelics is the one who gets left behind and one is just meditation, IE awake presence, which is in its nature complete omniscient but also like a paradox, total unknowing and a mystery. 

Unmanifest/manifest is exactly the same and one is not better then the other, just a distinction made by mind.

Everything is after all Mind, if we use it in a much more broader sense then what people normal refer to ofcourse.

The problem is that people ends up in camps, meditation vs psychedelics, which is a distinction mind is making, and if one is more present one can recognize that it is a completely illusory and pointless discussion since there is only this and it can appear as whatever. 

So this post of yours is important because you know both "paths" , if we have to label it.

Good writing and excellent message man ? impressed.

Unconditional love is what is, and meditation is that. 

Unfortuneatly for alot of people the word meditation can mean anything, but meditation is exactly the right word for it, but paradoxically one has to transcend it to become it instead, and it is just what is.?

I feel that we have to be clearer in our way of using language about this, even tho it is the most difficult subject ever lol ?

Like your communication, it is a clarity in it ?

Ultimately , the realization happen that it is completely pointless in communicating about this, it is doomed to fail in a way since infinity, but what else is there to do really, it is enjoyable and it is still pointing to the Truth.

Any way.. sorry for the rant ? you did a great job with this one ?

[Frenk]

Great great message man ? Very inspiring to me

[nistake]

Integrating nonduality/God consciousness into everyday, 'mundane' life is where it's at.

Awesome post ?

[Javfly33]

You are an inspiration, thanks for the post man!

[impulse9]

Thanks for sharing, beautiful. <3

[Matthew85]

@Consilience Your alignment is very evident. Thank you for sharing your insights. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Matthew85

[itachi uchiha]

I am waiting for leo and his army to hijack this thread

[Adamq8]

12 minutes ago, itachi uchiha said:

I am waiting for leo and his army to hijack this thread

? is that how you view the community , it would be unfortunate if it is ?

[Consilience]

2 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

This was hands down the best post ive ever read on this forum,  amazing! ?

Powerful message, source is vibrantly awake within you.

Meditation is amazing, and one can greatly benefit from them both, i would also say that, Meditation in a way is what we are, psychedelics shows us in a different way, like what the nature of YOU/Reality is but it is happening at insane speeds and one can't hold it, same can happen in meditation ofcourse, but I see meditation as what we are,  awake presence, while psychedelics can show us in an instant what we can be and are.

Both is so necessary for each other in a way, truly, like Ying and Yang, but in the end psychedelics is the one who gets left behind and one is just meditation, IE awake presence, which is in its nature complete omniscient but also like a paradox, total unknowing and a mystery. 

Unmanifest/manifest is exactly the same and one is not better then the other, just a distinction made by mind.

Everything is after all Mind, if we use it in a much more broader sense then what people normal refer to ofcourse.

The problem is that people ends up in camps, meditation vs psychedelics, which is a distinction mind is making, and if one is more present one can recognize that it is a completely illusory and pointless discussion since there is only this and it can appear as whatever. 

So this post of yours is important because you know both "paths" , if we have to label it.

Good writing and excellent message man ? impressed.

Unconditional love is what is, and meditation is that. 

Unfortuneatly for alot of people the word meditation can mean anything, but meditation is exactly the right word for it, but paradoxically one has to transcend it to become it instead, and it is just what is.?

I feel that we have to be clearer in our way of using language about this, even tho it is the most difficult subject ever lol ?

Like your communication, it is a clarity in it ?

Ultimately , the realization happen that it is completely pointless in communicating about this, it is doomed to fail in a way since infinity, but what else is there to do really, it is enjoyable and it is still pointing to the Truth.

Any way.. sorry for the rant ? you did a great job with this one ?

Thank you so much, that is quite the compliment. Im really happy it resonates. ❤️
 

And yes your message is spot on. Really appreciate the ‘rant’ ?

[Consilience]

@Frenk @nistake @Cykaaaa @impulse9 @Matthew85 Thank you all for the support. Im happy it struck a chord ❤️???

 

1 hour ago, Cykaaaa said:

If I may ask, what is your daily meditation technique? Is it Goenka-style Vipassana? That is, observing sensations throughout the body?

1 hour in the morning and 1 in the evening, like they suggest?

I don’t use the Goenka technique no. Lately Ive been doing a lot of “do nothing,” just letting “reality meditate me” but Ill also use the See Hear Feel vipassana noting technique, self inquiry, shamatha/jhana work, or metta. 
 

Ill usually do 1.5 hours in the morning and then 30 minutes in the evening. 

[OctagonOctopus]

@Consilience

Good message for the community. 

I have always felt that psychedelics are ment to be like an amplifier for spirtual practice, & certainly not the whole practice. I really don't get the constant psychedelics vs meditation conversation. To me it doesn't make much sense to compare them against each other. 

Some people seem to get the impression they don't need to do any spirtual practice if they take psychedelics, but that is recipe for becoming very ungrounded. Especially if they don't have some understanding of the distinction between direct expirence & conceptual expirence. Tripping can become a circle jerk of perpetuating your favorite worldview. 

I feel it comes down to using psychedelics to reach deep when it is needed, but ultimately finding a practice to ground yourself in. Gain insight into how to deepen your practice, ground it more into Truth & Love. Thus deepening your ability to harness the power of psychedelics, which then deepening your practice again, creating a positive feedback loop.

Psychedelics without meditation to me, is like trying to use rocket fuel without a spaceship. 

[Leo Gura]

@Consilience I don't mind your perspective. I don't doubt meditation has been powerful for you.

I'll just ask you this: how come when I talk to people who have done Vipassana or self-inquiry for years and decades, they still have no clue what God/reality/Love is? How is that explained?

[OctagonOctopus]

@Leo Gura

A lot of them probably didn't have as an integral of a world view as you do. I feel what happens a lot of the time is people get stuck with following one school of thought on spirtuality, end up getting traped in the dogmas of that way of thinking. They never got the correct map to lead them to the territory they were trying to get to. This is not necessarily the fault of the practice of meditation, but the way they are looking at the practice. 

You have integrated teachings from many different sources, thus it was easier for you to open yourself up to the many facets of God, & integrate them together. I'm sure a lot of these meditators have awakened to certain facets, but haven't integrated many facets together. Also I feel a lot of meditators are more trying to go with the flow of Nature, & don't care as much about understanding God on an intellectual level. 

[impulse9]

@Leo Gura My mom has been meditating for 40+ years and she told me countless times that love is everything that exists and that ultimately nothing else exists. I knew about all this decades before I found your videos.  She calls it unconditional love, and every spiritual teacher worth their salt should have intimate knowledge of it. I'm not really sure who you're talking to that you get apparently unsatisfactory answers.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

@Leo Gura My mom has been meditating for 40+ years and she told me countless times that love is everything that exists and that ultimately nothing else exists. I knew about all this decades before I found your videos.  She calls it unconditional love, and every spiritual teacher worth their salt should have intimate knowledge of it. I'm not really sure who you're talking to that you get apparently unsatisfactory answers.

That's fine but...

1) Those results are not typical. And I know many so-called enlightened people who outright deny Love or God. Which to me is just laughable.

2) I still highly doubt that your mother is conscious of herself as God. Saying the words is not enough.

3) I think that for some people meditation is much more effective than most people, because of their genetics, personality type, baseline, whatever. So just because it works for some people does not make it effective for most people.

4) 40 years is a lot of fucking work.

[Raze]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

1) Those results are not typical. And I know many so-called enlightened people who outright deny Love or God. Which to me is just laughable.

Are you sure they aren't just rejecting the terminology? 

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, OctagonOctopus said:

I'm sure a lot of these meditators have awakened to certain facets, but haven't integrated many facets together. Also I feel a lot of meditators are more trying to go with the flow of Nature, & don't care as much about understanding God on an intellectual level. 

I agree with this.

Certainly meditation can be used to access facets of God.

But to me, actually, to fully grasp God, intellect is crucial, and it gets demonized too much in most meditative approaches. Thus ultimate understanding is missing even if very high states are reached. Reaching a high state is not the same as understanding. And for me the key for God-realization is understanding.

God completely understands itself. It is absolutely omniscient. This aspect is not really taught in meditative schools.

[roopepa]

@Consilience A bit off-topic, but what advice would you give someone who is having some trouble with fearful thoughts about awakening, mystical states, going insane, etc?

What would you say to someone who has had a traumatizing trip? Someone who has just began to discover the mystical nature in everyday life, and is a bit anxious about it?

[Consilience]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Consilience I don't mind your perspective. I don't doubt meditation has been powerful for you.

I'll just ask you this: how come when I talk to people who have done Vipassana or self-inquiry for years and decades, they still have no clue what God/reality/Love is? How is that explained?

This is a good question. My personal guess is that they haven’t explored psychedelics intensely enough, if at all. I mean we go HARD at psychedelics in this community, way beyond what is normal. And I believe it has immense benefit regarding metaphysical understanding. 

But Ive met people who have done vipassana/self inquiry for decades and have zero issues with God/Love. Ive also met individuals who have done a lot of psychedelics, “understand” that we are God and Love, but dont meditate. These people are incredibly unimpressive though and clearly lack a level of embodiment. Both seem like traps.