Growing Movement in Canada To De-criminalize drugs

[Thought Art]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/drug-decriminalization-camh-1.6192785 -Article 

[Roy]

Nah it won't happen for quite a while. My country is still filled to the brim with rural Conservative simpletons. Who have the audacious lack of self awareness to call their party "Progressive Conservatives". lol I should start my own party called "The Up Downs".

I volunteer at a local fire department, and most of the people there are generally conservative. They are fantastic people who won't hesitate or have a problem delivering Narcan and first aid to overdose patients, but if you bring up the idea of safe injection sites so that we WON'T have to go to such lengths to save people they get pissed off because socialism and it's their tax money being used to "feed their addiction".

It's a good example of the cognitive dissonance of those on lower Spiral Dynamics stages.

 

[Thought Art]

17 minutes ago, Roy said:

Nah it won't happen for quite a while. My country is still filled to the brim with rural Conservative simpletons. Who have the audacious lack of self awareness to call their party "Progressive Conservatives". lol I should start my own party called "The Up Downs".

I volunteer at a local fire department, and most of the people there are generally conservative. They are fantastic people who won't hesitate or have a problem delivering Narcan and first aid to overdose patients, but if you bring up the idea of safe injection sites so that we WON'T have to go to such lengths to save people they get pissed off because socialism and it's their tax money being used to "feed their addiction".

It's a good example of the cognitive dissonance of those on lower Spiral Dynamics stages.

 

It's shame. People just aren't educated on that fact that it's really a mental health crisis. You aren't feeding their addiction you are creating a safe space for them to use, seek mental health services and work toward recovery.

I don't want to waste my tax money for years on end saving people, or have people lose their loved ones. People are fragmented as have this whole drug thing ass backwards. The war on drugs has done far more harm than good. There could have been a much better approach. I think it may happen sooner than we think.

Even the top police officials want the decriminalization to happen. anyway we shall see.

All drugs should be decriminalized for personal use. I think that obviously illegal drug traffickers should be arrested on a case by case basis as they likely are feeding their addictions too or are just assholes. 

[Carl-Richard]

Norway was very close to decriminalizing drugs earlier this year, but somehow the biggest left-leaning party decided to go against it. 

https://www.thelocal.no/20210417/norway-opposition-torpedoes-plan-to-decriminalise-drug-use/

[Thought Art]

@Carl-Richard Why doooo

[Carl-Richard]

49 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Carl-Richard Why doooo

[eggopm3]

It wont happen federally for a while but I think it's very possible that decriminalization at the municipal level in Vancouver could happen within a year or two.

[Egzoset]

Salutations from Québec/Canada.

 

Well i think words don't mean much in the mouths of politicians, especially when dealing with those exploiting the language barrier, for example:

 

 

It turns out the legal term "incidental" is required to translate as "possession simple" where i live, while this most basic correction didn't actually occur until 2 years had passed after Justin Trudeau formed his liberal government in Ottawa.  Quite unfortunately even that promise wasn't carved in stone as it's intended to get re-evaluated after 5 years and hence i would guess that's going to occur next year in a parliament where no party wants to cost another 612 million dollars just to organize federal elections again...

 

Nowhere i can identify a party that feels friendly to my own kind, not even in any of all government levels.  So, it might very well happen that 2 or 3 (maybe more) parties will decide to please angry voters by squeezing "stoner$"/"droÿé$" despite past hopes of fair treatment, except in Québec and Manitoba which got sacrificed to serve electoral purposes essentially.  Now that's sort of odd because before Trudeau we were supposed to be a majority of people who consumed at least once, then a few years into "légaleezation" it sounds like Québec is practically a bunch of alcohol drinkers instead.  In any case the previous provincial government of Philippe Couillard gave landlords a retro-active privilege to engage into eviction procedures over cannabis, so in principle all it takes is a photograph or a video to serve as proof in front of an administrative body.  Anyway, even without this the abusive lanlords may feel tempted/justified to use it as a negociation lever while in subsidized institutions a lot of residents simply lost their rights not even being made aware of it in due time (as there was a short prescription delay):  those people are assumed to have surrendered/relinquished their previous smoker habit(s) and there's no going back except if hiding in a ventilated closet.

 

Put shortly it's no longer criminal to consume cannabis no matter where it came from, e.g. the "legal" SQdC monopoly (mari-caca outlet stores...) or otherwise, yet in practice the users find themselves confronted frequently by mass-media shaming adds on top of having TV programmation flooded with alcohol propaganda via adds and more, much more.  For example, watching the Sci-Fi channel alone i can think of nearly a dozen different brands and still wonder why such double standards relatively to a noble plant that we're not even allowed to display in picture.  In addition i think municipalities have the power to compound a 3rd level of Prohibition 2.0 to that if they choose to do so;  i'm thinking of self-cultivation on an innaccessible private balcony being outlawed at least twice in Québec and at least once in Manitoba.  Oh it's legal all right, but the new monopoly dealer is many times as worse as any profiteer i've ever dealth with before - only once, because i'd never call a predator again if a deal felt less than satisfying.

 

So much for "légaleezation"!  Thanks but no thanks.  And the tendency will probably hit France soon too since i believe the present model may have been imported from there...  Next UK being a close neighbour it may follow the trend even if Biden finally manages to see the light in USA...  Not to mention many developped countries of the Commonwealth started to show signs that they could slip toward the rightist political spectrum!

 

So my foggy crystal ball warns that additional stress factors shall probably result from a socio-toxic mix of associated dynamics knowing practically all parties i can vote for are more than shy when it comes to dending us in front of a camera.  IMO bigot prohibitionists can be expected to win a few more points the same as if they were in an open bar...

 

In conclusion politicians are cranked up enough about cannabis already, imagine injection sites!  So...  Que sera, sera!  YMMV but i'm not going to enjoy a simple pleasure as mine under natural sunlight in my lifetime despite the fact it doesn't kill.

 

Good day, have fun!! 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Egzoset

[Leo Gura]

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

[Joel3102]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

I think it’s because the US is so states based and diverse. So a super green state like Oregon will be progressive as fuck 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Joel3102

[Thought Art]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

I mean we did legalize marijuana as a country a few years ago. I think magic mushrooms are next over the next decade. The grey market selling baked magic mushroom goods has already began... similar to what happened with pot.

Police are also more understanding about personal possession of illegal substances here. They are more and more wanting to help you than harm you.

we have 2 or 3 major parties that are in favour of de-criminalization. However, the liberals are moving slow, and are likely to work hand and hand with communities that are dealing with it before they straight up de-criminalize it. Which, i think they should decriminalize all substances that people have for personal use. However, in Canada if its something like mushrooms or weed the government will likely only legalize it if it can control it and sell it. 

Meanwhile, all these street drugs kill young men and women everyday. I mean, people are going to do drugs. We just need to get them the right ones. Maybe so they don't need them. Plus, drug use is a holistic mental health issue than just the drugs themselves so its really even more complicated.

We need to lower the stigma around psychedelics. Especially mushrooms the science is just overwhelming at this point the biggest thing is just education. The public opinion is changing and will continue to do so. We have had years of drug war propoganda that needs to be undone. 

There is billions to be made off of mushrooms so and billions of people to help with them. So, lets goooo.

Note: It may be less to do with spiral dynamics but also the actually law, and regulation structure of the country? I don't know how it is in the states but I think in Canada the substance act is federal. I don't know if provinces can legalize things by themselves. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Thought Art

[Eren Eeager]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

Other countries are sheep. They will not make a move until The US does so first. 

[Derek White]

I live in metro Vancouver and I can tell you we have drug addicts littered all around the city. Where I lived, you can't leave anything outside your house and inside your car, otherwise some addict will try to steal it. Our car's window has been broken twice by addicts to steal things inside. Addicts cut my neighbors' house's wooden pillar to steal their bicycle which was locked to it! My neighbor actually found the cluster of addicts who stole their bike (as they were buying grocery the next day)! But the police didn't make make any arrests. They just asked, "Did you steal this bike?" "No, my friend left it here, don't know where he went." Case closed. The authorities here doesn't do anything about them, they just ignore them. There will be druggies unconscious on the side and the police will walk by, no helping them or even arresting them. I should mention the police station was less than a block away from my house. Metro Vancouver has been giving free supervised drugs to  addicts at pharmacies for some years now. 

Even if we give them supervised consumption and mental health sites, it still doesn't address the root problem. We are still working on the symptoms of the problem. There is something wrong with our society itself that people have to go to a mental health clinic to get off drugs that they shouldn't have been using in the first place. Why are people mentally unstable in the first place? I think our society doesn't want to look at itself otherwise the things it cherishes will come into scrutiny.  

 

[PurpleTree]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

Portugal and the Netherlands have been doing it for a looong time.

Prague (Czech) has been doing it

Switzerland has been giving heroin to addicts for a looong time etc.

Truffles are legal in the Netherlands and Spain etc. i think so U.S. won't be the first

There's lsd therapy in some countries

and so on.

 

 

But yea once the U.S. does it will be great and many other countries will follow.

Edited October 4, 2021 by PurpleTree

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Derek White said:

Why are people mentally unstable in the first place?

Something like 1 in 5 people have some mental illness and like 1 in 20 have a serious mental illness.

Think about those numbers.

[Opo]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it odd that the US seems to be more of a leader on the drug legalization front than otherwise more Spirally developed countries?

Seems like the US will be first to legalize certain psychedelics.

I think it's because y'all can vote directly on certain stuff so as soon as most of the people want something it can pass. 

While here in Europe even if 99 percent of people want something in the end politicians make the last call. 

It could also be the good side of mah freedom ideology. 

[Thought Art]

All hands on deck. Looking for a life purpose that matters? Doesn't have t be drugs but... it can be making the world a mentally healthy place.

[Derek White]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Something like 1 in 5 people have some mental illness and like 1 in 20 have a serious mental illness.

Think about those numbers.

This only further proves my point. I feel inclined to say many people may say that that's because we define mental illness in a very narrow way. And that many of these people are not actually mentally ill, it's that our definition of mental illness is wrong. That argument has some truth. But the thing is these people are suffering regardless of what you call them. And that may be a result of how we function as a society. There a danger of progressives calling someone healthy when really they are not and thereby not encouraging that person to get better.

For example, this is a not a mental illness example, progressives may say to some lazy people that their laziness is part of them and that's just how they function, everyone has a different way of functioning and doing things after all. But does that actually help the lazy person? Maybe for them to succeed and be happy they would have to let go of laziness. This has to do with how progressives look at identity and it's a hairy thing to explain to people. My friend who wants to become a musician things along similar lines. I think progressives connecting mental illness with someone's identity is a problem.

There is also the issue of the internet and how that plays into mental health. My generation has effectively eliminated boredom with ubiquitous access to seemingly unlimited porn and entertainment. And then there is social media. In the past it was a privilege just to see a woman's face, and now men can look at whichever type of women they like doing whichever sexual acts they want them to do. This is definitely affecting men's motivations and mental health. There also polarization and radicalization and much more. We live in a Brave New World. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Derek White

[Thought Art]

3 minutes ago, Derek White said:

This only further proves my point. I feel inclined to say many people may say that that's because we define mental illness in a very narrow way. And that many of these people are not actually mentally ill, it's that our definition of mental illness is wrong. That argument has some truth. But the thing is these people are suffering regardless of what you call them. And that may be a result of how we function as a society. There a danger of progressives calling someone healthy when really they are not and thereby not encouraging that person to get better.

For example, this is a not a mental illness example, progressives may say to some lazy people that their laziness is part of them and that's just how they function, everyone has a different way of functioning and doing things after all. But does that actually help the lazy person? Maybe for them to succeed and be happy they would have to let go of laziness. This has to do with how progressives look at identity and it's a hairy thing to explain to people. My friend who wants to become a musician things along similar lines. I think progressives connecting mental illness with someone's identity is a problem.

There is also the issue of the internet and how that plays into mental health. My generation has effectively eliminated boredom with ubiquitous access to seemingly unlimited porn and entertainment. And then there is social media. In the past it was a privilege just to see a woman's face, and now men can look at whichever type of women they like doing whichever sexual acts they want them to do. This is definitely effecting men's motivations and mental health. There also polarization and radicalization and much more. We live in a Brave New World. 

It's a really complex issue. There are many ways to serve and tackle the problem.

[Thought Art]

I woke up with the power out,
Not really somethin to shout about.
Ice has covered up my parents hands,
Don't have any dreams don't have any plans.

I went out into the night,
I went out to find some light.
Kids are swingin from the power lines,
Nobody's home so nobody minds

I woke up on the darkest night,
Neighbors all were shouting that they
Found the light - "we found the light." -

Shadows jumpin' all over the wall,
Some of them big, some of them small.
I went out into the night
I went out to pick a fight with anyone.
Light a candle for the kids,
Jesus christ don't keep it hid!

Ice has covered up my parents eyes,
Don't know how to see, don't know how to cry.
Growin' up in some strange storm,
Nobody's cold, nobody's warm.

I went out into the night, i went out to find some light.
Kids are dyin' out in the snow, look at them go - look at them go!

And the power's out in the heart of man,
Take it from your heart put it in your hand.
What's the plan? what's the plan?
Is it a dream?
Is it a lie?
I think i'll let you decide.
Just light a candle for the kids,
Jesus christ don't keep it hid!
Cause nothing's hid,
From us kids!
You ain't foolin' nobody - with the lights out!
And the power's out in the heart of man, take it from your heart put it in your hand.
And there's something wrong in the heart of man,
You take it from your heart and put it in your hand!
Where'd you go?!

Edited October 4, 2021 by Thought Art