Calling out Leo

[Leo Gura]

@Leilani Of course what I say does not really contradict what you're saying. It includes it.

All roads lead to Oneness, but not all roads take you equally high.

I'm not sure what you're arguing about. Why argue about this when we basically agree about God and Oneness?

[Leilani]

@Leo Gura I guess I am just upset that you seem to say you have reached a state that is so high when I feel like I actually know quite a few people who have experienced what you are talking about but have a way more integrated view. (my grandma is a shaman and has quite a few far out there friends one in particular who experienced the void in like the 60's or 70's and had to check into a psych ward) I just wish you emphasized integration a bit more as even after all of my experiences nothing really compares to having my daughter and being able to hold her and feel her skin against mine and smell her. Go on adventures etc knowing we don't actually die and we are love at our most fundamental level makes it more fun but for some time I was obsessed with finding truth and when I came back down I realized how much I had neglected my relationships and life it didnt matter if on the most fundamental level it didn't exist I am still here and want my life and relationships to feel good. Living that truth is what its about living a full life without regrets.  Also I get confused when you say you have gone higher than any other teaching and that your experience makes NDEs look like a joke when the ones I have read actually seem to be almost exactly in line with what you are talking about they just sometimes tend to focus more on how to live a more joyful life. Making claims like that without actually looking into NDEs is just confusing for example and makes me feel like you are a bit arrogant and not trustworthy. 

[flowboy]

I guess this is why most enlightened yoga teachers choose to water down their teachings and hide most of what they know until you advance to their inner circle. Before then, you would not be ready, and nondual truths would be confusing and derailing to your life if you got them prematurely. You wouldn't even have your life together, basic needs met, emotional issues resolved, forgiven your family et cetera.

Many gurus have a requirement that you have to completely sort your life out beforehand.

Leo just said F That, let's see what happens if we put everything out there in the open anyway.

While I resonate with the rebellious rock-n-roll attitude, I think we are collectively finding out why other advanced guys in the past have consistently chosen to not do this, keeping the advanced stuff a secret, and focused on embodiment instead.

Ramana Maharshi would be a prime example of this, he chose silence and embodiment. I'm speculating, but perhaps the silence is because he didn't want to ruin people's game with his absolute truths, and he knew he could not communicate at their level anymore without confusing the hell out of them, letting truths slip which they could not absorb anyway, so instead he gave them everything they needed simply by looking in their eyes and showing them how he lives.

I think Leo provides tremendous value, creating this community and all his content. I just think that he undervalues the most effective parts of what he teaches, which are the how-tos of advancing your spiritual practice, how to do psychedelics, what to watch out for, which yogas are good, how to recognize good and bad techniques, pitfalls, dark nights of the soul, and also his more basic personal development videos are very effective I think. Any support on the path, every step of the way, is helping a lot of people. And then he overvalues the advanced stuff, the Truths that can not be properly expressed into words anyway, the solipsism, the "your parents are imaginary", that are going to be turned into a religion by nerdy guys who like to analyze instead of embody. The content that you probably should be realising for yourself anyway, because hearing it from a video doesn't do it justice.

Then again, if you realise you are God and you imagined your parents, you would perhaps feel crazy and like you were losing your mind, if you didn't have those videos telling you that it's okay and normal.

So it's a conundrum.

Perhaps a bit of a barrier for the more dangerous truth content would be good? Somehow proving that you are emotionally fit and financially taken care of, and have done enough of the basic work, before you get to the nothing-is-real stuff?

I mean Leo does warn against that in all his videos, and he keeps saying: "I teach very advanced stuff. Don't like it? Don't watch it", but who are we really kidding: I bet he also clicked the "Yes, I am over 18" button on websites when he was 16.

I sure did. Does that mean I should have seen those enormous dildos go into that tiny woman's asshole when I was 11 years old? No, I was traumatized by that for a long time, and had to come crying to my parents. It did not advance me on the path of healthy sexuality.

Something more clever would be needed. Questions that you can only know the answer to if you are healthy and mature enough to receive these teachings...

Edited October 1, 2021 by flowboy

[Purple Man]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

What I am talking about makes an NDE look like a joke.

 

While it´s true that many NDE´s seem to fall short in their depictions of the "afterlife", there are remarkable NDE´s which are among the deepest descriptions of the transcendent that have ever been written, like John Wren Lewis´ , which I find fascinating, given the ragey materialist past of this scientist and his excellent communicative abilities. 

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, flowboy said:

Perhaps a bit of a barrier for the more dangerous truth content would be good? Somehow proving that you are emotionally fit and financially taken care of, and have done enough of the basic work, before you get to the nothing-is-real stuff?

Does this include youtube videos of Eckhart Tolle, Mooji, Alan Watts, Ram Dass, Rupert Spira etc.?

[flowboy]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Does this include youtube videos of Eckhart Tolle, Mooji, Alan Watts, Ram Dass, Rupert Spira etc.?

I would tentatively say no, because as far as I know, they don't talk about solipsism being true, reality not being real, your parents and friends being imaginary, death not being real, your life being just a dream, and other stuff that could make an already troubled person jump off a bridge.

Their stuff is more feelgood. If you don't get it, you don't get it. No high risk of dangerous misinterpretation.

Of course Leo's stuff is also more effective in some ways, but then, also more dangerous to someone at the wrong stage in life.

[Nahm]

4 minutes ago, flowboy said:

someone at the wrong stage in life

?

[flowboy]

36 minutes ago, Nahm said:

?

I don't think already depressed people should be getting into solipsism and interpret it to mean that they are totally alone. Or that teenagers who get bullied and contemplate suicide, should hear that death is not to be feared, because it's just an imagination and their life isn't real either. Or that someone suffering from derealisation, is helped by a video telling him nothing's real and life is just a dream. Or that people with an already shaky grip on reality are helped by the message that they are God and created everything.

I don't condemn putting out these videos, I love them. But I'm mentally healthy, so whatever I don't get, I don't get and that's it. I think there's groups of people who would be prone to dangerously misinterpret these teachings, and are not ready to hear some of these things being proclaimed with extreme conviction, and perhaps something more can be done besides disclaimers.

Then again, if not all the teachings would be democratically made available, that is a bit cultish...

It's a conundrum. I'm just brainstorming here.

These arguably dangerous truths are surely magnitudes less dangerous than all the lies being circulated by ideologues... so what are we even talking about.

I'm just saying, I get why spiritual truths would be guarded. There's also a reason that not everyone knows how to make a Philosopher's Stone. There's freemasons sitting on that (I've heard). Disclosing everything to the masses leads to chaos.

Edited October 1, 2021 by flowboy

[Carl-Richard]

35 minutes ago, flowboy said:

I would tentatively say no, because as far as I know, they don't talk about solipsism being true, reality not being real, your parents and friends being imaginary, death not being real, your life being just a dream, and other stuff that could make an already troubled person jump off a bridge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[flowboy]

@Carl-Richard  Good point. Same could be said for that stuff, I guess.

[Nahm]

@flowboy

With respect, if I’m being transparent, I can not relate. 

[Star]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

But remember, no one ever said that Absolute Truth will be easy or comfortable. It might completely destroy your life. And you should know that I don't really care if it does. Because what I care about is Truth, even if kills every human on this planet. Truth is a dangerous thing. Think twice whether you actually want it. No one here is forcing you to pursue Absolute Truth. Do it only if you absolutely can't stand to live without it.

There is no truth, only fantasy... 

 

[PurpleTree]

6 hours ago, Leilani said:

@Leo Gura I guess I am just upset that you seem to say you have reached a state that is so high when I feel like I actually know quite a few people who have experienced what you are talking about but have a way more integrated view. (my grandma is a shaman and has quite a few far out there friends one in particular who experienced the void in like the 60's or 70's and had to check into a psych ward) I just wish you emphasized integration a bit more

ok, an episode on integration?

that'd be cool

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Leilani said:

@Leo Gura I guess I am just upset that you seem to say you have reached a state that is so high when I feel like I actually know quite a few people who have experienced what you are talking about but have a way more integrated view. (my grandma is a shaman and has quite a few far out there friends one in particular who experienced the void in like the 60's or 70's and had to check into a psych ward) I just wish you emphasized integration a bit more as even after all of my experiences nothing really compares to having my daughter and being able to hold her and feel her skin against mine and smell her. Go on adventures etc knowing we don't actually die and we are love at our most fundamental level makes it more fun but for some time I was obsessed with finding truth and when I came back down I realized how much I had neglected my relationships and life it didnt matter if on the most fundamental level it didn't exist I am still here and want my life and relationships to feel good. Living that truth is what its about living a full life without regrets.  Also I get confused when you say you have gone higher than any other teaching and that your experience makes NDEs look like a joke when the ones I have read actually seem to be almost exactly in line with what you are talking about they just sometimes tend to focus more on how to live a more joyful life. Making claims like that without actually looking into NDEs is just confusing for example and makes me feel like you are a bit arrogant and not trustworthy. 

I understand your position and why you are skeptical.

However, it remains that case that there exist much higher levels of consciousness which you have not yet accessed.

Your grandma is imaginary.

If you just want to enjoy the human life, that's fine. But my work is focused on something beyond that. My work is not suitable for everyone. If what I say is too radical for you, then you can find far less radical spiritual teachers and teachings. But you will not reach the same level of awakening as I am talking about using those more comfortable teachings. They are comfortable precisely because they aren't the highest.

And there is no way you can know if what I'm claiming is true unless you go where I have been.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

@Carl-Richard  Good point. Same could be said for that stuff, I guess.

and mainstream ideas like reincarnation, the afterlife, nihilistic atheism, simulation theory etc.

[Leilani]

@Leo Gura 

 

Ok Leo I have went there 10 years ago. Wrote about it, tried to write poetry to describe it, was obsessed with teaching everyone about it. Did more damage than good. Live a life of joy and love.

[flowboy]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

and mainstream ideas like reincarnation, the afterlife, nihilistic atheism, simulation theory etc.

Yup, that too. Could all be the wrong thing to hear for the wrong person. Nietzsche himself didn't do so well on it either. I guess those are worse because they are not based in spirituality, just thinking.

I'm not saying information should be restricted.

Perhaps more carefully marketed towards people who are at the right stage of the spiral, and at the right level of emotional maturity and health, and will actually benefit from it, and away from those who will abuse it.

Maybe Leo is already doing this, I don't know.

Edited October 1, 2021 by flowboy

[Purple Man]

On 30/9/2021 at 4:54 PM, Leo Gura said:

 

Experiences of God are not good enough. You need to become God so fully that nothing but YOU is left. No others, no humans, no animals, no history, no Christ, no Buddha. no family. no nothing. Just YOU! Only YOU.

 

Leo, I joined this forum with the honest aspiration to understand the few steps left for me, so help me on this, please: My daily experience is Pure Subjectivity, a formless, trascendent, unmanifest Awareness, which serves as the source, perceiver and host for all the individual body-mind perspectives or bubbles of individual consciousness. I know my Identity is this Point Zero, so I am not looking for intermediate levels of spirituality. I´ve gone way too far to not want Absolute Truth. I am close. 

Now, that said, I have not had access at all to the details of why there is manifestation and why the individual body-mind perspectives have appeared. Many, even in this forum, have stated that the existential terror, the epic aloneness of God is so total that it created a cosmic game where It could forget Its tragic fate. That seems total absurd to me, but I can´t totally deny the possibility. Others think that the solitude of God is  more blissful than the the highest experiential state, so creating the Universe would be just a Love-based impulse, not a "need". 

Can you please say something on this? I´d appreciate it.

[Carl-Richard]

21 minutes ago, flowboy said:

Yup, that too. Could all be the wrong thing to hear for the wrong person. Nietzsche himself didn't do so well on it either. I guess those are worse because they are not based in spirituality, just thinking.

Then the next step is that feel-good philosophies and spiritualities are shallow, inauthentic and lead to denial, repression and finally breakdown. You're never safe from the truth.

[Leilani]

@Purple Man I would say look into teal swans near death experience. Or Nanci Danisons NDE Where she realized what Leo is talking about I will link a video down below. 

:https://youtu.be/1UlrWwli9Q0