Why nothing changed in other "people's" behaviour after I woke up?

[Mason Riggle]

21 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

@Mason Riggle Yes, that might work. 

But it wouldn't be the sense organ responsible for that stuff. 

I'm not sure I follow.. responsible for what stuff?  Do you feel like a 'thing which is responsible' that sits somewhere inside your organism, controlling your organism, 'seeing' what you see.. 'hearing' what you hear.. 'knowing' what you know?   Where, inside your organism is this thing?  If 'this thing' is 'looking out at the world'.. what if it could also look inside and 'see' it's thoughts and feelings (internal) rather than 'sights' and 'sounds' (external).. it might recognize this boundary (external/internal) wasn't real, and the 'thing which experiences both' does not have any 'place' to exist.. 

There is no 'thing which experiences' separate from 'that which is being experienced'.. there is just 'experience'.. all of it... and 'you' are all of that. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Thought Art]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Silly to assume that the dream would change. Knowing that a video game isn't real does not change the video game.

Liberation is not achieved by manipulating the game. It is achieved by complete surrender to the game as it is.

Actually, I think in some of your videos you make it seem like it would. At least it could be easily construed that way. Had me confused for a minute as I considered the possibility. I didn't buy it, but I was like... What? What the hell am I being told by this person?

Like, maybe you don't make it clear which You/you you mean when you speak.

So, for me I am still wondering wondering if God realization is just a neat thing you can do for fun vs just living anyway.

I guess you need to pursue truth for it's own sake. The ego wants to be able to manipulate etc

Upon rewatching maybe I'll see them differently but it was a little confusing at times.

Like, maybe do a video on what a grounded path to awakening would be like to smooth out the edges. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Thought Art

[Tyler Durden]

23 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

 

@Tyler Durden  Well without that no one would buy into the illusion of sensory organs.

So God imagines stuff that is in accordance with scientific theories, such that people actually believe scientic theories. 

In a dream, when you close your eyes, everything becomes dark as well. But were it the eyes that was responsible for the visual stuff?

You might as well see all that visual stuff with eyes closed, or no eyes. If God decides so.

Interesting explanation. There are still some situations that I'm trying to figure out. If I wave to my friend on the street, he'll wave back. How does he know I did that if he doesn't have eyes for seeing? Just an automatic reaction for me to buy into the illusion? God pulling the strings from behind the scenes to fool itself?

Edited September 30, 2021 by Tyler Durden

[Persipnei]

I feel this thread is a perfect example of how a spiritual experience deludes the ego. An awakening is a moment of clarity that can give you insights, but if you try to understand it with learned limited concepts, you quickly create an ego concept around it. I'd dare to say that when you think you got "enlightened" or "awakened", it didn't happen. I experience these spiritual ego thought patterns every time after the initial awe of an experience has waned a bit. It's like the moment the imprint of an experience is not strong enough to overcome your ego, it gets highjacked by the ego and you start to think you "are there", but it's actually the moment you start thinking this that you lose it.

Enlightenment also isn't a binary thing. An awakening is not enlightenment, but can be a step towards it. It's not something you "reach", but something that slowly becomes more and more part of your being.

You are expecting the world to change around you, but that's not how it works. Your perception changes, and you will attract people of your new vibe (people that are on the same or complementary part of "the way"), where people who don't meet your vibe (those who think you are a nutcase or who are stuck in concepts you got over) will disappear from your life. Your parents will not change because you have changed, BUT if you interact different with them that could trigger an insight in them so that they DO start to change.

[Persipnei]

8 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

But Leo's teachings strongly resonate with my inner feeling. Surely I'm on a right path. It wasn't a coincidence for me to discover/create this forum. It was meant to be after my realisation.

Don't want to be that guy, but Leo also has an ego and a lot of his video's are highly subjective because of that.

Not denouncing the value of his video's, by the way. There is a lot of valuable information he shares, but it is still translated to concepts and the ego loooooves concepts to play with.

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

I had glimpses of it but soon returned to regular dualistic mindset. But it was a life changing insight. I couldn't look the same way on life anymore.

Awesome.

I think you have innocently allowed yourself to be mislead in a way, both in cognitively ‘knowing the truth’ & more so in solipsism, and that doesn’t resonate with you or your friends, who probably care about you more than they do being right or your thoughts & perspectives, and more than I suspect you realize. I would look to meditation, other similar practices & experiences, and most significantly your relationships to deepen in truth, allowing it more into your life so to speak. The behaviors of everyone you encounter will indeed change miraculously, in a manor which can only be directly experienced, but you can’t ‘hide’ so to speak, behind conceptual existential bypassing, believing your own or others concepts & theories are true, unknowingly believing conjecture, etc. You gotta fully be you. You gotta recognize thought attachment & it’s role in beliefs about how people should be. I’d empty of everything you’ve heard or learned, and enjoy the feeling of letting it all go. When you are just, you, it is ineffable, intangible, undeniable, and all pervasive as the whole of experience. 

[Terell Kirby]

Why are you expecting change in the behavior of humans with awakening? Sounds like Zen devilry.

You should not be looking for humans to change, you should be looking at your judgements of them to change.

[Thought Art]

There is no shame in being confused. When we are taking a deep existential inventory and asking deep questions it's totally normal imo.

Then, as you reach the shore after a long night in the crashing waves... you become a lighthouse for others. 

 

[GreenWoods]

2 hours ago, Mason Riggle said:

I'm not sure I follow.. responsible for what stuff?  

I mean, in the same way that eyes are believed to be responsible for visual appearances.

2 hours ago, Mason Riggle said:

?  Do you feel like a 'thing which is responsible' that sits somewhere inside your organism, controlling your organism, 'seeing' what you see.. '

Haha no lol.

[GreenWoods]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Interesting explanation. There are still some situations that I'm trying to figure out. If I wave to my friend on the street, he'll wave back. How does he know I did that if he doesn't have eyes for seeing? Just an automatic reaction for me to buy into the illusion? God pulling the strings from behind the scenes to fool itself?

Yes, God fooling you haha.

[Tyler Durden]

@Persipnei Yeah, it's a process, I still have lots of things to learn, hopefully my ego won't get in the way.

@Nahm Thanks for the support. With the help of people here and right practices, I'll find the path to enligtenment.

@GreenWoods So basically everyone is blind but behaving as if they can see?

[Thought Art]

I also think being awakened and grown up is living in truth. So, it's having all these questions answered. During an awakening process however, I think its okay to be confused, make epistomology/ metaphysical errors. It's your one life... So take full responsibility for it. 

Mistakes are OKAY.

The shame I've been carrying the last few years about my mistakes... One thing I love about 5meo is that it tells me everything is okay.

I didn't know what love really was, or what peace was, or what total self acceptance was until I tried this substance. So, learning to respect it has been a bit hard. My ego wanted awakening to be a manipulation of reality... but it is a surrender. However, I am maturing every single day. I now have really solid protocols with 5meodmt... But I HAD to learn for myself what it was and how to use it. It's my life, I will learn through my own process and I don't need to be sorry about that. I am taking on one of the most challenging things a human can do: Seeking truth. In a world of self deception, and with my rough and painful upbringing I am proud of myself for everything I have done. Qigong (which 5meodmt showed me somehow) has been so grounding, that with my journaling and meditation. 

Qigong is my way of sharing my 5meo experiences with others who wouldn't try it. It's an extension of what I consider the highest love.

Notice how the existential truth it... It's just this bubble of experience. That is all it will ever be for your whole life. So, take full responsibility for it and retake your soverignty. Accept the risks associated with stepping out into the dark because there are many. Zen Devilry, misunderstanding, mistakes, etc are going to HAPPEN!!! So, Love yourself more and more everyday and use each day to more away from self deception and toward Truth. 

I still have so many questions. Life is a grand mystery and adventure. 

I've lived with anxiety for like 10-15 years. So, I am so grateful for 5meo helping me with my addictions, and Leo and all my mistakes and everything helping me to mature into a clear minded and grounded person.

I am excited to try malt here in a month or 2. I am just sitting on it until my life is more stable as I am just finishing up school and my Qigong certification and don't wanna risk trying something new atm. 

In the end, look for clarity, happiness, love, well being, integrity, wisdom, good habits, clear thinking, sobriety, forgiveness of self and others and acting in alignment with your highest values.

How reality was before awakening it will be after awakening.

Just, different. Same same but different.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Thought Art

[Matthew85]

On 9/29/2021 at 5:56 AM, Tyler Durden said:

After realising that life is a dream and other people are merely dream characters or figments of my imagination, I noticed nothing changed in their behaviour.

@Tyler Durden What I have observed in my own journey is there is a difference in glimpsing a state or insight and consistently embodying it. Until I was able to change the beliefs I held and consistently embody a new state I didn't see much change in people or my environment. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Matthew85

[GreenWoods]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

.

@GreenWoods So basically everyone is blind but behaving as if they can see?

Yes, including your body.

 

But just because it is not the body or eyes that does the seeing, doesn't mean that there are no visual appearances.

There are visual appearances. They are not perceived through your eyes, in that sense your body is blind. But these appearances still exist. You perceive them by being them. It is a direct 'process'.

[cetus]

@Tyler Durden 

On 9/29/2021 at 8:56 AM, Tyler Durden said:

Should I just play along or do something about it?

What about the 3rd choice- do nothing. 

[Proserpina]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Silly to assume that the dream would change. Knowing that a video game isn't real does not change the video game.

Liberation is not achieved by manipulating the game. It is achieved by complete surrender to the game as it is.

Of course don't expect but how can you say that Beauty has no impact on how you treat others and the finite self and the resulting affects of that?

Edited October 1, 2021 by Proserpina

[cetus]

@Proserpina  I think what Leo is saying is after awakening reality remains exactly as reality is.

[Leo Gura]

Absolute Truth is not a change in human behavior. Get that.

Stop trying to use Absolute Truth to get something for your human self.

[Proserpina]

@Leo Gura If I am God and everything that is happening is of my will why couldn't the Absolute will to benefit the finite self?

Edited October 1, 2021 by Proserpina

[Matthew85]

@Proserpina The finite mind is in a co creative dance within the higher mind. I continually mold and shape my reality, while at the same time recognizing the perfection of things just as they are. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Matthew85