Getting a "standard" job first to ultimately help with LP later?

[Matt23]

So, I've been considering becoming a counsellor to just sort of pay the bills and help me gain more leverage in life overall.  

I'm nearly 30 and don't have much career capital and am really noticing the limits this has caused me, financially, with my health, for personal growth and spirituality, and even my life purpose.  I find it's getting harder and harder, especially physically, to do jobs on the lower end of the job market.  Things like serving, working in cafes, etc..  They also don't pay well, which translates to feeling/being limited for time, rest and recuperation, spending money on things that could drastically improve my life (like retreats, psychedelics, therapy, coaching, supplements, food, etc., etc.).  Freedom is also one of my core values and I find working for others to be kind of difficult sometimes.  

So I've been considering just getting a masters in counselling so I can then have more marketable skills and training to help me earn more money.  Ultimately leading to a better quality of life, even if it's not totally my life purpose.  It could even help me with my life purpose since counselling is a pretty independent job you can do from anywhere these days.  

On the other hand, I don't know how much I'm motivated to do counselling.  I mean, I've had this kind of low feeling about doing it.  Like I'd rather be interacting with others in a more dynamic fasion.  Maybe like a community leader of sorts.  I'm not too sure.  Though, I'm sure counselling can be applied to many fields, so I'm also trying to consider how it could be helpful to get even if I don't do strict 1-on-1 counselling.  

I'm also not too sure how much of a empathic, caregiving type I am.  I mean I do get interested sometimes by others.  Wisdom and Perspective giving was one of my top 3 strengths, and understanding is one of my top values (which to me means investigating and understanding myself and others psychologically, but more with things like symbolism, Jungian-type stuff, energies/forces/archetypes within that go beyond the merely personal level of the psyche and operate on a deeper more fundamental and powerful level).  

Anyways, what do you think? 

To me it sounds maybe a bit not totally right to do if I don't feel it.  Especially since it would require a decent amount of time and money to get a masters.  Though, I suppose you don't need to get a masters, you could just get smaller certifications and such.  

[Thought Art]

My personal opinion for these things is to bite the bullet and get the best wage slave job you can. You can live a good life this way, increase your earnings and strategically invest your free time in to your own business.

Getting a comfortable job that allows you to develop a skillset is ideal. This is why I am studying administration/ Accounting because it seems so foundational to being a business owner while increasing my earning potential. 

I had a rough start to my 20's with depression and anxiety but things are coming together. 

[Bob Seeker]

money to buy psychedelics doesn't sound too bad. 

Sitting in the office thinking "I'm not the man they think I am at home... I'm a rocket man. ROCKET MAAAAAAAN!"

Edited September 28, 2021 by Bob Seeker

[w4read]

@Matt23 It sounds like counselling is at least within some roam of what you want to do, so probably not a terrible choice in and of itself. It is a pretty wide field too, which can lead you in many different directions when your'e uncertain about your purpose. 

If you want to pursue and pay for a whole masters degree in it is a different question. I think I at least would become clearer about my purpose before i did that. If it turns out to be a stepping stone to your actual purpose, then go for it.

[Gladius]

If you are not 100% sure, don't do it. Keep exploring.

My experience with master's degree is not good though, I got one in my late 20's and still feel cringe about it. I'm 36 now and starting life totally from the scratch.

[Matt23]

5 hours ago, Gladius said:

My experience with master's degree is not good though, I got one in my late 20's and still feel cringe about it. I'm 36 now and starting life totally from the scratch.

Ah, sorry to hear that (if you feel bad about it).  What was your degree in?  

6 hours ago, w4read said:

If you want to pursue and pay for a whole masters degree in it is a different question.

Ya, that's the thing; it does sort of sound in the realm of my LP, but also doesn't quite fit the bill emotionally, at least not at the moment.  And ya, the whole masters thing is kind of a big one.  

I think whoever suggested exploring more sounds like where I'm at at the moment.  That's kind of what's getting me excited and where I feel some "pull".  I'm also just getting more clarity on my top values recently so that's a big plus.  

So far, some of my top values are...

• Freedom (so part of this means being able to travel for work or when I wish, have financial freedom, being my own boss, etc.)
• Understanding (which means understanding myself, and perhaps others too, though on a more like Jungian/symbolic level, and even using the "powers" etc.  Like "forces" and occult stuff, "bigger" psyche stuff.  Imaginal.)
• Diversity (connects with nature I think for me.  Nature holds a lot of meaning for me).
• Tranquility (which I envision more as the place I live, so a quiet place where I can contemplate, study, etc. Just relax in peace and calm.  Contemplate, etc.).
• Joy (I'm pretty sure anyways.  This for me relates to doing things with others, like working together.  I've gotten lots of energy when doing things with others when we're all working together to complete tasks.  I get all jokey and fun.  This might also connect with community, I've always felt a sense of deep meaning and love for people, groups of people, like community, and have envisioned and felt meaning in creating something like/has the feel of the Shire. I've felt this love for this that would really make me defend, protect the community as best I could, like I'd die for them).  
• Friendship (kind of self-explanatory.  Having like a best friend I feel close to and snuggle with, and then probably a larger close friend group as well).  
• Connection (which is more about finding a romantic partner)
• Reality/Awareness (Not too sure which label, but it's related to awakening.  That for me is big and fills me with love and joy and is meaningful, the whole awakening stuff). 
• ...
• Then I'm not too sure what else.  
• Perhaps Skill: so just being masterful and skilled at something.  Some thing that gets me focus, something where I'm like skilled at some sort of activity or craft or something.  
• Not too sure what other one.  

I've also noticed that there is like very specific definitions that values mean for people, while also there being more generic meanings.  For example, Freedom for me could have a very specific definition and vision attached to it.  Whereas it could also mean just doing things that generally people consider to lead to greater Freedom.  I find this way of looking at values useful cuz then you can both work towards the most specific and meaningful vision you have for a value while also pursuing it in a general sense in the meantime.  So, while I'm working towards earning $16 million, owning a white house with a large lawn surrounded by nature, I can also do things like find jobs that allow me to work from home, make my own schedule, and pay more.  

Edited September 29, 2021 by Matt23

[SamC]

On 2021-09-28 at 6:33 AM, Matt23 said:

So, I've been considering becoming a counsellor to just sort of pay the bills and help me gain more leverage in life overall.  

I'm nearly 30 and don't have much career capital and am really noticing the limits this has caused me, financially, with my health, for personal growth and spirituality, and even my life purpose.  I find it's getting harder and harder, especially physically, to do jobs on the lower end of the job market.  Things like serving, working in cafes, etc..  They also don't pay well, which translates to feeling/being limited for time, rest and recuperation, spending money on things that could drastically improve my life (like retreats, psychedelics, therapy, coaching, supplements, food, etc., etc.).  Freedom is also one of my core values and I find working for others to be kind of difficult sometimes.  

So I've been considering just getting a masters in counselling so I can then have more marketable skills and training to help me earn more money.  Ultimately leading to a better quality of life, even if it's not totally my life purpose.  It could even help me with my life purpose since counselling is a pretty independent job you can do from anywhere these days.  

On the other hand, I don't know how much I'm motivated to do counselling.  I mean, I've had this kind of low feeling about doing it.  Like I'd rather be interacting with others in a more dynamic fasion.  Maybe like a community leader of sorts.  I'm not too sure.  Though, I'm sure counselling can be applied to many fields, so I'm also trying to consider how it could be helpful to get even if I don't do strict 1-on-1 counselling.  

I'm also not too sure how much of a empathic, caregiving type I am.  I mean I do get interested sometimes by others.  Wisdom and Perspective giving was one of my top 3 strengths, and understanding is one of my top values (which to me means investigating and understanding myself and others psychologically, but more with things like symbolism, Jungian-type stuff, energies/forces/archetypes within that go beyond the merely personal level of the psyche and operate on a deeper more fundamental and powerful level).  

Anyways, what do you think? 

To me it sounds maybe a bit not totally right to do if I don't feel it.  Especially since it would require a decent amount of time and money to get a masters.  Though, I suppose you don't need to get a masters, you could just get smaller certifications and such.  

What's your life purpose? 

[Leo Gura]

Yes, that's a totally valid strategy.

That's what I did when I became a life coach. I wasn't at that time planning to start Actualized.org or shoot videos. That came as a later development thanks to my life coach training and pursuits. I was not as passionate about life coaching as I am about shooting videos. But it was good enough.

Of course you should have some passion towards whatever you're studying and practicing otherwise you probably won't even finish it.

[Gladius]

On 29/09/2021 at 4:42 AM, Matt23 said:

Ah, sorry to hear that (if you feel bad about it).  What was your degree in?  

@Matt23 No worries, I actually feel peace and relief now, but of course that means I "wasted" a big chunk of my life. My degree was in logistics.

[Matt23]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course you should have some passion towards whatever you're studying and practicing otherwise you probably won't even finish it.

That's fair.  I'm pretty solid when it comes to school work and being on top of that.  

Though, I am unsure how motivated and thus productive I'll be if I have my own counselling business and have to do the work-work part of things.  I'm a bit worried of the "drain" factor, especially if it's not something I'm passionate about.  Though, it could be good too.  Dunno until I try it I suppose.  

3 hours ago, Gladius said:

logistics.

I wonder if you can use that to do what you more deeply want.  What is it you're thinking of now?

[flowboy]

What have you learnt in those 30 years, that you can help other people with?

Perhaps there is a skill that you developed, which can become a marketable skill, if you market it correctly.

For example, my friend has taught himself techniques to be super relaxed and chill under the highest university workload. Out of necessity, he perfected the skill of being cool under a huge workload. He knows how to slow his heartbeat down and everything. I've told him that he should teach that, and/or put it in a book, because other college students who suffer from pressure will want it.

 

Btw, to be a good counsellor, it not only takes a master's in counselling, it also takes being counselled. Reasons being:

• It's important to have experienced both sides
• You can only take someone as far as you have been willing to personally go

Edited October 1, 2021 by flowboy

[Michael569]

3 hours ago, flowboy said:

You can only take someone as far as you have been willing to personally go

Love this perspective!

On 28/09/2021 at 5:33 AM, Matt23 said:

So I've been considering just getting a masters in counselling so I can then have more marketable skills and training to help me earn more money

There are often alternative ways. Depends on what sort of counseling you'd wan to do, there are also reputable non-university courses for techniques like shadow work, NLP, childhood conditioning, life coaching and really anything you want to do. You could become a certified NLP practitioner for example in about 12-16 months compared to 5 years at uni that will probably cost 80-100K. 

You could probably do a course like that if you took some lower-paid but peaceful job where you won't have a lot of stress, still get an income but have enough time to focus on your stuff. While this would not be optimal in long-term, many night shift jobs allow a lot of freedom. I'm not exactly sure what the job would be so have a look on Linkedin wat's going on in your area, maybe browse the jobs in your local town/city and also look at the largest recruitment companies posting. These days the job market is actually switching and there seems to be excess of job offer over job demand. At least in Europe. 

I was super lucky that my permanent job allowed me to also study and so I completed the entire college while working full time, it was all about managing the workload and whenever there was nothing to do, I instantly switched to my lectures and notes. I know many of my schoolmates did the same so in many administrative jobs you will have a degree of freedom which most people spend on social media and news channels and you'd spend that receiving education and training for your LP. 

[flowboy]

5 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

there are also reputable non-university courses for techniques like shadow work, NLP, childhood conditioning, life coaching and really anything you want to do

I would argue these are also more effective than what you would learn at university, with the caveat that they should be applied to healthy people.

 

On 28/09/2021 at 6:33 AM, Matt23 said:

So I've been considering just getting a masters in counselling so I can then have more marketable skills and training to help me earn more money.

 

On 28/09/2021 at 6:33 AM, Matt23 said:

To me it sounds maybe a bit not totally right to do if I don't feel it.  Especially since it would require a decent amount of time and money to get a masters. 

I would not recommend getting into anything purely for the money. If you're not passionate, you won't be willing to do the work to be good at it.

Now you can become passionate after starting, when you see results and get good feedback. But start with an interest that is authentic, I would say.

On 28/09/2021 at 6:33 AM, Matt23 said:

I'd rather be interacting with others in a more dynamic fasion.  Maybe like a community leader of sorts.  I'm not too sure. 

Well, get sure!

Start with the end. Expand on this vision and I'll be happy to brainstorm with you what a reasonable first step can be that can already make you money.

Your visioning game is not on point, and I'm not letting you get away with it. You are 30. Get a compelling, detailed vision already! Time to know where you are going.

[Matt23]

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

Well, get sure!

Start with the end. Expand on this vision and I'll be happy to brainstorm with you what a reasonable first step can be that can already make you money.

Your visioning game is not on point, and I'm not letting you get away with it. You are 30. Get a compelling, detailed vision already! Time to know where you are going.

K bud.  Back off.  I am not digging your tone.  Jesus fucking Christ.  

You might have decent points, but I hate the tone. 

You don't think I spend hours fucking on this shit!?  And that I don't already have some idea as to where and what I want to do?!  FUCK!

I might be into some brainstorming, but I dunno. I'm just not feeling the tone to be honest.  I'm already fucking hard enough on myself as is.  I don't need some extra pressure and some fucking asshole breathing down my neck pushing me even more, telling me I'm a fuck-up and not being on my fucking side.  I struggle with the boundaries too sometimes, so if someone's like fucking pushing it I fucking hate it, I just fucking hate it.  

5 hours ago, flowboy said:

Btw, to be a good counsellor, it not only takes a master's in counselling, it also takes being counselled

Ya, I've been through a decent amount of counselling. 

 

I know you're trying to help, it's just I'm in a fucking shitty feeling-state and situation at the moment and just fed up with all these people giving advice in the absolute worst ways.  I just am getting sick of it all.  

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

there are also reputable non-university courses for techniques like shadow work, NLP, childhood conditioning, life coaching and really anything you want to do. You could become a certified NLP practitioner for example in about 12-16 months

That sounds appealing.  Cheers.

Ya, the whole certification thing might be a better route than taking a college degree.  More practical it seems. 

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Matt23

[flowboy]

@Matt23  My apologies then!

I only used that tone as a tactic because I thought it would help you. It's worked on some. Here, I see I misapplied it.

I remember what it was like to be late twenties and feel like a total fuck-up. I may not have taken this well either.

I learnt something, thank you.

Anyways, I do not think you are a fuckup at all! That's not what I meant. I'm not here to push your buttons. I was unaware you had that button.

I am on your side.

Edited October 1, 2021 by flowboy

[flowboy]

17 minutes ago, Matt23 said:

You don't think I spend hours fucking on this shit!?  And that I don't already have some idea as to where and what I want to do?!

That's awesome. Then those ideas should make it clear whether counselling is a step towards, or a step sideways.

Edited October 1, 2021 by flowboy

[Gladius]

@Matt23

14 hours ago, Matt23 said:

I wonder if you can use that to do what you more deeply want.  What is it you're thinking of now?

It actually was a really specialized aspect of logistics, so it was impossible to apply anywhere else. I love screenwriting and filmmaking, but I can't see a realistic way to pay the bills with that for the time being. This year I tried teaching languages in private and I loved it, so I'm definitely training to become English teacher.