Why I find the practice of mindfulness dangerous

[HypnoticMagician]

I don't care whether you are an introverted or not but there are lots of reasons why I you need to make investment into introspection more to introspection in this very journey of self-actualization. It is because we accumulate a lot of assumptions, prejudgements, hard-to-change thinking patterns over the years after we are born. So, without pruning the irrelevant connections we set up, our mindfulness practice will also revolve around those thinking patterns. Although you might have some level of improvement, it is going to be affected by your imperfect filters which buddhists also call "ego". Obviously, our perception of reality during the mindfulness meditation can easily expected to rely on our previous thinking track. Even if you want to practise this form of meditation, you need to get very good at introspection meditation in the first place. Do you agree or why don't you agree if you don't. What do you think about it?

[PepperBlossoms]

Questioning things without much practice or skill can get one in trouble such as poor logic used, using a limited lens, not being holistic, not considering epistemology of info/events/assumptions, not aware of all the things one could be aware of, improper assumptions/blame/story, not aware of one's own (and others) meaning-making, etc.

Some skills that I learned via failure:

-Try to see as many perspectives as possible: How do I see the situation?  How do I think that person A, person B, and person C sees the situation?  How does Person A think person B/C/me sees it?  How does person B think person A/C/me sees it?  How does person C think that person A/B/me sees it?

-Notice when blame is getting put on one person.  Now look at it as if others are "at fault". Person A is at fault - what does that look like?  Now person B.  Now person C.  Now me.  Then notice that it isn't any one person's fault and that it is all part of a system/environment.  What are the skills/values/knowledge of each person?  How is the environment, social norms, assumptions impacting everything?

-Notice that the info you have impacts what you see.  Notice that when you get a new idea/info, the situation's meaning completely changes.  And then more and more info and then more change.  Notice that you will never have all the info, all the perspectives, and the whatever.  Notice that whatever you happen to focus on is what context you are using.

-Notice that it is all a story we are making up and telling ourselves and we may tend to look for stuff to reinforce the story.  

-Notice what the ego is trying to do.  Is it trying to prove it is right, prove a point, get away with something, make someone look bad, not accept responsibility, etc.

-One's health and past events can impact how they judge current events

-We are making up meaning for everything

Edited September 27, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[Raptorsin7]

@HypnoticMagician I don't know if I agree that meditation is dangerous. Like driving without a seatbelt is dangerous, but that doesn't compare in anyway to meditation. 

But I do agree that just engaging in mindfulness meditation practice without any other map or information about what the goals of the practice are, can lead to people getting stuck and making no progress. So in that sense I can see your point, if that's the point you're making.

I was doing a 30-60 minute guided mindfulness meditation for like 2-3 years and made virtually 0 progress. It wasn't until I took psychedelic's that I finally realized what the entire purpose of practice was pointing towards.

[mandyjw]

If you have the mindset of focusing on getting rid of all your flaws and issues, you won't get very far because that is in itself an old pattern of thinking of securing a better future of becoming more perfect. If you focus on how you do want to feel, what thoughts you do want to entertain and allow yourself space to let go of thoughts and connect with being, you'll purify or burn up everything that isn't serving you much faster with less drama. "Previous thinking track" is a thought that occurs now. In meditation, or with mindfulness we see the hilarious irony of how thoughts seem to create past and future, problems, etc, but actually don't ever touch the space that we already are. 

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, HypnoticMagician said:

I don't care whether you are an introverted or not but there are lots of reasons why I you need to make investment into introspection more to introspection in this very journey of self-actualization. It is because we accumulate a lot of assumptions, prejudgements, hard-to-change thinking patterns over the years after we are born. So, without pruning the irrelevant connections we set up, our mindfulness practice will also revolve around those thinking patterns. Although you might have some level of improvement, it is going to be affected by your imperfect filters which buddhists also call "ego". Obviously, our perception of reality during the mindfulness meditation can easily expected to rely on our previous thinking track. Even if you want to practise this form of meditation, you need to get very good at introspection meditation in the first place. Do you agree or why don't you agree if you don't. What do you think about it?

Well, two things come to mind..

When meditating you are training the mind to go beyond thoughts... So you are developing a new skill.

And mindfulness is something you can bring into understanding these thoughts as you develop a more holistic set of practices.

I really enjoy the headspace app which is what trained me to meditate for the first year and a half. 

I am back into meditating every morning and am so glad I made the investment into this practice years ago. I also do Qigong and am finding a balance between my practices as they synergies. 

Head Space

Edited September 27, 2021 by Thought Art

[Moksha]

Mindfulness meditation is not about using the mind to overcome the mind. Clearly that would be self-defeating, since the conditioned mind is unable to cure itself.

It is about focusing attention on the meditation object (breath, inner body, etc.), without being distracted by the mind. Thoughts and emotions come and go, but they lose their gravitational pull. The mind is seen for what it is, and its neuroticism becomes apparent. You no longer identify with it.

You are Consciousness itself, and simply by being present, you provide a healing space for the mind. Attachments to the phenomenal world begin to dissolve in the light of awareness, and as they disentangle, their energy returns to your essential Self. 

[Sucuk Ekmek]

Mindfulness is imagination. How do you know you are not tricking yourself? 

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

Mindfulness is imagination. How do you know you are not tricking yourself? 

Meditation, when mastered, is pure awareness and spaciousness. There is nothing to be tricked by. Thoughts, including even the thought of "you", are clearly seen as such.

Meditation enables them to go
Deeper and deeper into consciousness,
From the world of words to the world of thoughts,
Then beyond thoughts to wisdom in the Self.

- Katha 1.3.13

[hyruga]

The word 'Mindfulness' suggests that your mind is full of things which is wrong, according to Eckhart Tolle. That's why people nowadays seldom use the word 'Mindfulness' anymore and they use the word 'Meditation' instead.

[Moksha]

@hyruga Agree, mindfulness is misleading. Mindlessness is actually closer, but still doesn't capture it. As pointers, I prefer Spaciousness, Stillness, and Presence.

[Dayo]

Mindfulness is seeing reality exactly as it is. The more you practice mindfulness the clearer the picture of reality that you have. You are literally cleaning your senses. Your view of mindfulness is faulty and inaccurate.