Leo, how much have you read into Taoism?

[Adamq8]

@Thought Art It starts out as reading pages devouring content of a spiritual teacher etc, but there comes a time when the "seeker" exhaust itself sorta, to completely let go, one paradoxically discovers heaven right here and now.

?

[Thought Art]

3 minutes ago, Adamq8 said:

@Thought Art It starts out as reading pages devouring content of a spiritual teacher etc, but there comes a time when the "seeker" exhaust itself sorta, to completely let go, one paradoxically discovers heaven right here and now.

?

I can intuit this. However, I don't think that replaces life long learning for me. I can realize I am God, this is imaginary, and I am in heaven and still learn more because... It's infinite and it's fun to learn. 

Spiritual books are more than just for seeking. They are for growing and fleshing out, plus there is simply an aesthetic element to reading something beautiful. 

Also, there is too many spiritual paths, spiritual flavours and potentials for the soul and human body. I can't see myself just sitting around lazily in bliss. I wanna explore and learn in bliss and create value. 

This is just my own spiritual take. It's all right. alllll right.

Unbiased.

I've experienced plenty of radical states, but I am still integrating and developing myself spiritually. 

There is not shoulds. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Leo Gura So, does God realization remove the need to read or learn?

I assume not. So, a God realized person can and likely would still use teachings for growth.

Actually it sorta does. At least spiritual teachings.

You can still read or learn non-spiritual stuff like how to bake a cake.

At some point in this work you must reach a point where you give up all spiritual teachings because they only take you further away from direct experience.

God must transcend all ideas and teachings about God. That is the true God. God must transcend all human authority.

Now, that's a very advance stage I'm talking about. You might be ready for that yet, in which case the teachings can be useful.

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura Unless you wanna become a Qi master as I do... 

We will see where I am once I awaken.

Have a great day Leo. Love you man!

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Unless you wanna become a Qi master as I do... 

Well, you can look at that as baking cakes.

If you sufficiently realize you're God, you will not care to be "Qi master", since God is a power beyond that.

But hey, babysteps is okay. Whatever works for you.

[Endangered-EGO]

@Leo Gura My perspective doesn't matter. I listen to lots of teachers with an open mind. I don't know who's right or wrong, but neither can you. Some things/pointers/maps/methods help and some don't.

I'm also not saying you are wrong and he is right. What I am saying is from his perspective you are in a prison of some state of realisation, which kind of sounds like you are... (in terms of permanent classical non-returning enlightenment). Most teachers say that. And you dismiss them, because you're not doing what they did/do and you realised something you think they didn't.

You actually use Jhana terminology. Infinite Consciousness, Infinite nothingness. So you're kind of talking about the jhanas if you're not only using those words to mean something else.

You cannot expect him to be humble about his "achievement" and dismiss him as a fool if you get that it's not useful to be unnecessary humble about it. Otherwise you wouldn't claim to have achieved levels of consciousness higher than buddha or Jesus.

I can turn the question around and say: How do you know you're not in the God-trap? How do you know that this incredible God realisation, fascination and attachment is what keeps you from full-blown permanent no-self, with or without being God-realised.

I assume you probably spoke to a few mainstream teachers: What came out of those discussions, what did they tell you?

[GreenWoods]

5 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

.You actually use Jhana terminology. Infinite Consciousness, Infinite nothingness. So you're kind of talking about the jhanas if you're not only using those words to mean something else.
 

His definition of these terms is very different from Jhana terminology haha.

God Consciousness is far beyond all Jhanas. 

[Endangered-EGO]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

At some point in this work you must reach a point where you give up all spiritual teachings because they only take you further away from direct experience.

@Leo Gura Except if you want to test your enlightenment! 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@Leo Gura I don't know who's right or wrong, but neither can you.

Well, Consciousness says otherwise.

Quote

What I am saying is from his perspective you are in a prison of some state of realisation, which kind of sounds like you are...

Yes, well, millions of people can and will call me wrong. So what? That comes with the territory.

Quote

You actually use Jhana terminology. Infinite Consciousness, Infinite nothingness. So you're kind of talking about the jhanas if you're not only using those words to mean something else.

What I mean by Infinite Consciousness is not what these Buddhists mean.

Quote

You cannot expect him to be humble about his "achievement" and dismiss him as a fool if you get that it's not useful to be unnecessary humble about it. Otherwise you wouldn't claim to have achieved levels of consciousness higher than buddha or Jesus.

I care not what he calls himself.

Quote

I can turn the question around and say: How do you know you're not in the God-trap? How do you know that this incredible God realisation, fascination and attachment is what keeps you from full-blown permanent no-self, with or without being God-realised.

I know. But there is nothing I can do to communicate that to you because the only way you can know is if you reach complete omniscience. Which is possible.

Quote

I assume you probably spoke to a few mainstream teachers: What came out of those discussions, what did they tell you?

I have found all their teachings lacking.

I have been forced to abandon all teachers and teachings because they do not go far enough.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@Leo Gura Except if you want to test your enlightenment! 

NO! You cannot test it! Because there exists nothing to test it against.

Testing assumes an other. There is no other.

To realize you are God requires you entirely surrender the notion of ever being able to validate it against another. No one can ever corroborate to you that you are God. If you expect that, you're fooling yourself. You're not grasping the depth of the problem. There will never be corroboration. Either you get it or you don't. And so far, you don't.

I say the radical things I say precisely because I know you will instinctively seek validation of your realization. And I am here to tell you, forget about it. No validation will never be possible.

[impulse9]

"These Buddhists" lol. With this type of arrogant approach you're just going to turn a lot of people off. You've already turned me off.

You're playing a game of one-upmanship. It's crystal clear to anyone with a modicum of spiritual experience.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

"These Buddhists" lol. With this type of arrogant approach you're just going to turn a lot of people off. You've already turned me off.

You're playing a game of one-upmanship. It's crystal clear to anyone with a modicum of spiritual experience.

You can assume that.

Or another possibility is that I'm pointing out a trap to you which you're not yet conscious of.

I don't care about one-upping anyone. What I care about is making sure you guys don't get stuck in the trap of some shallow and incomplete realization. I have seen too many people fall prey to that.

You guys love making this about me. But this is not about me at all.

Are you conscious of the fact that you are creating all of reality? That is all. That's what I teach. I don't care about anything else. If you want to read other sources, by all means, go ahead.

[Blackhawk]

[impulse9]

Don Juan in Castanedas books was pretty clear about this. Your thoughts create reality. So it's rather simple. Stop thinking, and you stop the world. What remains is the truth.

[Intense]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I say the radical things I say precisely because I know you will instinctively seek validation of your realization. And I am here to tell you, forget about it. No validation will never be possible.

True. but if someone does not understand this they have not even reached LOC 500. Realizing the possibility of absolute truth and it being absolutely appearance (from the surface level) is the reaching of the beginning of true spiritual seeking. This is of course never to be validated.

You should assume your students already know this if you are also talking about the highest and most radical teachings.

Your teaching style has begun to backfire against you because your Awakening is incomplete. Stop hindering people in their spiritual work.

[impulse9]

I agree with the above point in the sense that people are at vastly different levels when it comes to spirituality. Some people will benefit from Buddhism, others will transcend it, others will end up confused by it. Some people will benefit from God realization teachings, some people will end up massively confused by them. It's my humble opinion that if you want to truly awaken people you need to tailor the teachings to specific levels, or make the teaching such that it reflects truth no matter what angle you look at it from.

This is why masters like Eckhart Tolle offer their teachings in a way where it's applicable to every single level. Someone who's new to spirituality will get one message, someone who's at a very advanced level will get a radically different message. I've noticed that highest teachings always work in this type of multi-faceted way, and that's why they sometimes appear vague to the ignorant.

[Blackhawk]

"No teaching, no teacher, no student."

—  H. W. L. Poonja.  Also known as Papaji

[Endangered-EGO]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

NO! You cannot test it! Because there exists nothing to test it against.

Testing assumes an other. There is no other.

To realize you are God requires you entirely surrender the notion of ever being able to validate it against another. No one can ever corroborate to you that you are God. If you expect that, you're fooling yourself. You're not grasping the depth of the problem. There will never be corroboration. Either you get it or you don't. And so far, you don't.

I say the radical things I say precisely because I know you will instinctively seek validation of your realization. And I am here to tell you, forget about it. No validation will never be possible.

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Are you conscious of the fact that you are creating all of reality? That is all.

@Leo Gura I am not conscious of it right now, but I've realised that I dream all of "reality" sober. including self and other.

Now I am back in duality. You could measure it by how stable, frequent or effortless it is.

Just imagine someone has the exact same realisation as you, but says it's permanent, and he cannot focus in it or out of it, and you on the other hand need to focus to realise God.

Hypothetically, couldn't he give you a hint like "try not to be conscious of God for a week" and this would have the opposite effect and actually "increase" your god-consciousness? Or point you towards some aspect of God-consciousness you aren't yet familiar with.

What if some pointers/methods, actually increase the duration and reduces the effort of God consciousness?

I'm sure you experiment with it all the time yourself, and other's do too and share what works and what doesn't.

[Blackhawk]

What about this one:

No psychedelics either.

[Adamq8]

Guys cool down and stop going for attack that Leo is not awake, he is not, since Leo is a fiction.

All of the sudden there is alot of buddhist here, and that is nothing wrong with that at all,  but buddhism is a religion with full of dogmas and that should be understod aswell.

There is plenty of maps towards awakening and if buddhism fits you then go for it, but don't take a buddhist word when it comes to GOD, it is like listening to an atheist explain GOD.

And awakening is not necessarily a permanent realization either, but then again it is because source recognizes its own being.

But I see alot of bias against psychedelics here,  to me it feels like people who uses them is immature and probably need alot of grounding to do before going into it.

But just because it didnt work for "you" does not mean it does not work for anybody else.

Psychedelics show you the truth as well, if you are concious enough.