Just a straight question

[Preety_India]

Just a straight question

I will never be comfortable having sex without getting to know the person on a deeper level (emotionally) at first. 

Does this make me a bad person or stingy or a closed minded person? 

Are my emotional needs as a woman a blockage to society or to men? 

I'm not demonizing someone's sexual needs or the ways they go about fulfilling it as long as it is honest and ethical? 

Then why are my needs as a woman judged or looked down on? 

Then Why am I wrong in honestly expressing and stating my needs? 

Why should I do something that doesn't make me feel right/good just because Men/Society wants me to? 

If you're gonna shame me, then remember I'll ask moderators to lock this thread.

 

[Preety_India]

Question to Leo. @Leo Gura

I do not agree with you on some of the recent posts where it seemed like you were being critical of women who wanted an emotional connection before wanting to get sexual with a guy. 

I think this is like sexually pressuring women and making them feel guilty for having emotional needs. 

How do you respond to this? 

Btw you had recently said that you would put effort in making this dating forum appealing to women. 

How is shaming women for their emotional needs exactly appealing to women? 

Remember you said this last time. 

 

 

[Federico del pueblo]

It's the same as with the other posts.

You're basically asking "am I ok the way that I am or should I be different so I can be liked/accepted?"

What would you now do if men told you "yes, you're stingy, we don't like that"? Would you now want to change the way you are? Can you even change your emotional needs.

You know this already, but if you want to have a good life then you must make your sense of self esteem (and self love, self acceptance etc.) more independent of how other people view you.

There is never anything wrong with you, just because one of your traits goes against "the mainstream".

You have your needs and you communicate them, some will accept you and some will reject you and this is GOOD for you because you wouldn't have gotten along with the people who rejected you anyways.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Federico del pueblo

[Preety_India]

Honestly I'm getting fed up with this dating forum. If things don't change, then I'm leaving this dating section forever. The posts that constantly criticize women negatively have begun to bother me. 

I know I shouldn't take it personally, but as a woman it hurts that a lot of posts don't show any understanding or compassion towards women, like bashing women somehow is the regular pastime on this part of the forum. 

How much can someone take? Women are criticized way beyond what they deserve to be criticized for.

And this attitude of bashing women is mainly encouraged and enabled by Leo and his coterie. 

Not fair.

 

[vizual]

If you don't feel comfortable with a certain person you are never obligated to have sex with that person. You decide what you do with your body and who you share it with. If a guy is just horny and wants to get laid that is his problem, no one owed him anything. Not you, not any woman.

Just like when a beggar on the streets asks you for money you are not obligated to give that person money. It is your money, you earned it, and you decide what to do with it. You are not a bad person if you don't give a beggar money. He is not your responsibility. 

[Federico del pueblo]

Go more meta on the issue.

Realize that most people who post here have some kind of problem, insecurities, fears, traumas etc.

It's not like you're gonna see enlightened people posting in the dating section. Everybody just copes, compensates and projects their own stuff out.

I wouldn't really read any of the "how should a woman be?" kind of posts, it only puts you in your head.

Anyway it's not really different for men though (except for the fact that more men post here).

We also feel like all kinds of expectations have to be fulfilled to be "a good man":

Have this level of status, be successful, be strong, be a leader, make good money, be intelligent, be competent, be a winner etc.

This is why I simply chose to liberate myself from all this bullshit, I only shape my personality in the way I want to shape it and then let people decide if they like me or reject me while realizing that no rejection/opinion or judgement about me means shit.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Everything you're doing is fine. Our judgement doesn't matter at the end of the day. Just keep doing you. It"s your life, not ours.

Thank you for the encouragement. 

 

[Nos7algiK]

You are free to hold the beliefs and/or moral standards that you wish. There is nothing wrong with wanting to wait for an emotional connection, I personally feel the same. But, there is nothing wrong with just jumping right into things as long as both parties are consenting. 

But, regardless of your own person freedom to align yourself with your own morals. This applies for others as well, more importantly the freedom other people have to form an opinion of you. You can view your own self as doing nothing wrong or not being stingy by withholding sex. But, anyone or lets say any man, who becomes aware of that you wish to wait for an emotional connection for sex has every right to believe or even call you stingy. 

You do not have the right to enforce someone not to hold an opinion on you, though you do have the right to object against their opinions.

In the grand scheme of things you can know who you are regardless of what others think. But, what others think is also who you are to them. Rejecting this will only cause suffering. We should attempt to not allow the opinions of others to affect us.

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Nos7algiK said:

But, anyone or lets say any man, who becomes aware of that you wish to wait for an emotional connection for sex has every right to believe or even call you stingy. 

You mean to say I can simply go around calling a guy abusive even when he is not. 

Or I'll say that a guy is being a pervert even when he has no bad intentions. 

What people say or don't say to each other have consequences. 

Nobody can go around simply accusing someone of something or calling them something that is not acceptable to that person. 

We don't live in society with zero standards. 

Do we just go around calling men abusers and women prude? 

How does that work? 

By your logic even calling someone fat should not have any consequence 

 

[Nos7algiK]

@Preety_India Yes, I do mean you can do that. You have every right to do that. But, like you said there may be consequences and I never said there wouldn't be. 

You are inserting words I never said into your argument. Again, people can think or say what they want about you. That is the statement, I made no statement to what happens after that. I would assume that is implied by anyone who has a sense of rationality. Generally speaking on the internet there are no consequences for having opinions of others, except maybe an argument online.

We need to accept others will hold opinions of us, think bad thoughts about us, accuse us of things we never have done, and perceive us in ways that are just false. Once we accept this their words no longer affect us and we are free from the burden of social opinions. But, on the contrary you are entirely free to object against what I am saying and you are fully free to be affected on an emotional/psychological level by what others say about you.

There are very low standards on the internet and if you wish to engage on the internet it's not going to play by the rules you want us to play with. Though, I personally believe in attempting to be kind and understanding to others online. Though this idea is not something that is universally shared between us all.

But, literally stating you are free to say/believe what you want even if it's about yourself but others are not free to say/believe what they want even if it's about you is hypocritical.  It's a very common hypocrisy people seem to have in life, so my statement is not coming from criticism. Rather, I don't enjoy seeing other people suffer or stressed over the opinions of others online.

You are fully free to hold whatever opinion of me you wish, even if it's slanderous and completely false. Though regardless of my own personal beliefs, again you are free to live life as you wish or should I say within your own limitations that life gives to you.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[vizual]

10 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

You mean to say I can simply go around calling a guy abusive even when he is not. 

Or I'll say that a guy is being a pervert even when he has no bad intentions. 

What people say or don't say to each other have consequences. 

Nobody can go around simply accusing someone of something or calling them something that is not acceptable to that person. 

We don't live in society with zero standards. 

Do we just go around calling men abusers and women prude? 

How does that work? 

By your logic even calling someone fat should not have any consequence 

 

You are now venturing into a different topic, the topic of decency and social grace. If a man calls you a prude for not putting out. Yeah, that’s assholish and indecent. Obviously a man without many manners.

 But he still has the right to hold that opinion. Maybe he likes “easy” woman. In that case, in his mind every woman who is not easy comes off as prudish. He has the right to want easy women, just as you have the right to only have sex with men you feel an emotional connection with.

 Again, you are not responsible for the problem or preference of every single being in the universe. People are different

[Preety_India]

11 minutes ago, vizual said:

You are now venturing into a different topic, the topic of decency and social grace. If a man calls you a prude for not putting out. Yeah, that’s assholish and indecent. Obviously a man without many manners.

 But he still has the right to hold that opinion. Maybe he likes “easy” woman. In that case, in his mind every woman who is not easy comes off as prudish. He has the right to want easy women, just as you have the right to only have sex with men you feel an emotional connection with.

 Again, you are not responsible for the problem or preference of every single being in the universe. People are different

36 minutes ago, Nos7algiK said:

. 

 

I'm not responsible for their preference nor should I put up with their labels and judgement. 

They can't call me something I'm not comfortable being called. 

 

[Nos7algiK]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

They can't call me something I'm not comfortable being called. 

 

They have, they can, and they will continue to do so. As you will continue to feel uncomfortable. Unless you either stop caring what other's think or leave the environments where people are holding opinions of you.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Nos7algiK said:

They have, they can, and they will continue to do so. As you will continue to feel uncomfortable. Unless you either stop caring what other's think or leave the environments where people are holding opinions of you.

This infringes on basic decency. Because opinions can easily turn ugly, indecent and also gaslight. 

[vizual]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

This infringes on basic decency. Because opinions can easily turn ugly, indecent and also gaslight. 

A person expressing his opinion freely can indeed turn ugly.

But preventing people from the freedom of expressing their opinion can turn way uglier. We have enough examples of that through history.

The solution is is in proper communication and acknowledging our differences as people. People have different lifestyles and preferences, and through proper and respectful communication we can create mutual understanding and respect. We need to be able to express our opinions freely while respecting the other person.

 

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, vizual said:

A person expressing his opinion freely can indeed turn ugly.

But preventing people from the freedom of expressing their opinion can turn way uglier. We have enough examples of that through history.

The solution is is in proper communication and acknowledging our differences as people. People have different lifestyles and preferences, and through proper and respectful communication we can create mutual understanding and respect. We need to be able to express our opinions freely while respecting the other person.

 

Respectful communication does not involve calling a person stingy just like respectful communication does not involve calling a woman prude 

 

[Nos7algiK]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

This infringes on basic decency. Because opinions can easily turn ugly, indecent and also gaslight. 

I understand what you are trying to say. But, basic decency isn't a common factor specially online. Most people have "good" intentions even if they hold bad opinions on you. Generally speaking they most likely had prior bad experiences that led them to their toxic opinions and it's just a trauma/suffering reaction. Very few people are hateful just to be hateful.

Those that are hateful just to be hateful, let's say narcissists, are looking for a reaction in you from their words. So usually no matter what you say towards them, unless its something like "you are free to see me as you wish", they have won because they were looking to provoke you and got that. 

I understand wanting to defend yourself, but unless it's against something completely slanderous that could have life repercussions if other's believed it. It's generally a lose/lose situation while defending yourself. Of course some "arguments" can be civil and discussed, but we don't always know ahead of time if the person we are responding to will be "decent" or not.

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Nos7algiK said:

I understand what you are trying to say. But, basic decency isn't a common factor specially online. Most people have "good" intentions even if they hold bad opinions on you. Generally speaking they most likely had prior bad experiences that led them to their toxic opinions and it's just a trauma/suffering reaction. Very few people are hateful just to be hateful.

Those that are hateful just to be hateful, let's say narcissists, are looking for a reaction in you from their words. So usually no matter what you say towards them, unless its something like "you are free to see me as you wish", they have won because they were looking to provoke you and got that. 

I understand wanting to defend yourself, but unless it's against something completely slanderous that could have life repercussions if other's believed it. It's generally a lose/lose situation while defending yourself. Of course some "arguments" can be civil and discussed, but we don't always know ahead of time if the person we are responding to will be "decent" or not.

Have you heard the  term self esteem 

[Nos7algiK]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

Have you heard the  term self esteem 

Yes of course, but you can't rely on the internet and others to give two shits about someone's self esteem.

But, personally, I wish to see other people's self esteem not effected by the words of others. This is my goal here. Though, it's easier said that done. It can be done, so maybe it needs to be said.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[something_else]

It's kinda simple, you're free to wait as long as you want but if that's longer than the guy is willing to wait then you must accept his feelings on the matter, and he must accept yours

Either you come to some middle ground or you part ways, neither side is right or shameful. Do whatever you want, but accept that by waiting longer you may repel some great guys who just happen to want sex sooner than you. Same goes for them, they miss out on great girls who just need a little more time

If I remember correctly the main point of the other thread was more that expecting commitment before sex is problematic. Because a guy can't know if he wants to commit before sex, so it's unfair of the girl to expect that. If you're expecting commitment from guys first as opposed to just an emotional connection then I would argue you could be being a bit selfish and needy. But I don't think that's what you mean here anyway, correct me if I'm wrong