How long do you wait to have sex?

[Etherial Cat]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Let's put it this way:

What has the highest self-worth in the Universe? God. God has infinite self-worth since it is everything. And what is God's level of neediness? Zero

Ta-daaa!

Be like God and chicks will love you. God has the ultimate Game. God is the ultimate Player

Attractiveness is basically the ability to incarnate self-love and Self-Love on an energetic level. 

Pick-up gets frowned upon when it tries to emulate God-likes characteristics through its rules/principes but misses the mark. It gets off when the guy comes from a space of lack and try to emulate something that isn't true to him and/or he treat women totally out of the golden rule, unlike how God would.

God is the Chad/Stacey...

And the ultimate studs are humans who incarnate the most God like qualities on the relative while being very human.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[aurum]

35 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Pick-up gets frowned upon when it tries to emulate God-likes characteristics through its rules/principes but misses the mark. It gets off when the guy comes from a space of lack and try to emulate something that isn't true to him and/or he treat women totally out of the golden rule, unlike how God would.

I think it’s even deeper than that.

If you truly had a level of self-worth close to that high, it’s highly unlikely you’d be interested in doing pick up at all. Or at the very least, you’d be uninterested in the more ego-based parts of pickup, like cranking your lay count as high as possible to feel good about yourself.

Most guys I see who are actually “in sexual abundance” with women are quite content to just be in a relationship with one woman. It’s actually scarcity that drives a “I need more” attitude and that you need four girls on rotation. In the same way that it’s sometimes someone with the MOST money that feels the most scarcity.

Abundance does not equal optionality. A cutting down of options can actually signify abundance, because you feel that choice is enough.

Which is not to say I’m against guys going through a PUA phase. I’ve been very critical of PUA lately, but any guys reading this should understand my bias is that I’ve already been there. I’ve done my 1,000+ approaches. If you haven’t done that, PUA might be temporarily valuable for you. 

[Preety_India]

9 minutes ago, aurum said:

Most guys I see who are actually “in sexual abundance” with women are quite content to just be in a relationship with one woman. It’s actually scarcity that drives a “I need more” attitude and that you need four girls on rotation. In the same way that it’s sometimes someone with the MOST money that feels the most scarcity.

Omg you couldn't be any more correct. That's so on point 

Like how come people on this forum don't get it. 

 

[The0Self]

18 minutes ago, aurum said:

Most guys I see who are actually “in sexual abundance” with women are quite content to just be in a relationship with one woman. It’s actually scarcity that drives a “I need more” attitude and that you need four girls on rotation.

On point. Very much seems to be the case.

[soos_mite_ah]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

Also, sex alone doesn't create intimacy. You've got several type of intimacy to look for from what I have noticed. Intellectual intimacy and emotional intimacy are coming to my mind. Again, it takes a rare animal and I can't speed up 10 years + of self-help for the normal chap to meet me where I am at. 

That and sex doesn't always equate to a sense of intimacy and closeness. Sure that can come from sex but I think having that emotional connection and build up is much more important both in terms of relationship building but also having fulfilling sex. 

21 minutes ago, aurum said:

Most guys I see who are actually “in sexual abundance” with women are quite content to just be in a relationship with one woman. It’s actually scarcity that drives a “I need more” attitude and that you need four girls on rotation. In the same way that it’s sometimes someone with the MOST money that feels the most scarcity.

Abundance does not equal optionality. A cutting down of options can actually signify abundance, because you feel that choice is enough.

I agree with this. I think sexual and social abundance comes down to mindset more than anything. A lot of it has to do with not being needy and being self assured in the notion of being on your own. It's seeing relationships, whether they be sexual, platonic, or romantic as the cherry on top of just you living your life and being. Sure you can get a sense of abundance by having a bunch of people you can call up whenever for a hook up but I guess what I'm trying to say is that that is not the only route to sexual and social abundance.  

[aurum]

9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Like how come people on this forum don't get it. 

Because it’s not the phase of life they are in.

Most guys here are young and feel like they lack options when it comes to dating. So their main concern is maximizing optionality. That’s also what PUA instructors tend to teach.

Then they conflate optionality with abundance.

I believe it’s also a product of our larger stage Orange society. Everything is about maximizing options and freedom of choice.

[SgtPepper]

.

Edited September 28, 2021 by SgtPepper

[SgtPepper]

Ideally, I'd wait until I trust the person 100%.

If you are interested in getting married and having a monogamous long term relationship with someone who you will define as your life partner. Consider a future conversation you will have with your partner about your sexual history. I think the average man and woman will be happy feeling that their sexual experience is a very exclusive experience. 

On 9/26/2021 at 0:06 AM, max duewel said:

Actually, I am losing respect for a girl if there is clear chemistry and she withholds for no reasons

so... you never respected her in the first place. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by SgtPepper

[aurum]

35 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

I, for one, definitely want to try it out.

Then go for it.

Demonization of pickup is untenable as all demonization is untenable upon close enough inspection.

Which includes even demonizing people who demonize.

Pickup itself is a manifestation of a stage Orange society. As such, it has most of the flaws and benefits of stage Orange.

You gain optionality and freedom of choice, but you can lose deep intimacy.

You can gain novelty and faster gratification, but can lose commitment.

But of course if you’re stage Orange, you don’t care that much about commitment or intimacy anyway. So PUA makes sense.

And as much as I’d wish that society was higher up the spiral, I have to recognize that is my bias. And remember how much I appreciated that people were willing to meet me where I was at.

[Jacob Morres]

 

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Like how come people on this forum don't get it. 

Think of a topic where you feel scarcity in or a time of your life where you've felt scarcity in something. Those feelings - It's sort of like that 

[zazen]

The reason pick up gets frowned upon is because people think the guys learning it are being fake, or that they aren't the genuine article. From a evolutionary psychology perspective, if a guy portrayed he's something he's not ie he has enough resources and strong characteristics to take care of the children / protect provide for the family and she pro created with him only to find out it was a lie, thats literally risking her and her child's life. No man is born great but made great over time through growth. Men build their primary value (strength), women retain their primary value (softness - close to innocence of children). As life happens, a woman under too much strain and under a tough life has to be in her masculine at the expense of her femininity. 

 

Sex is the most important thing when you don't have it, anything lacking becomes their new god. As the saying goes the hungry don't get fed. Once you have it in abundance you realise its not all that, and that in fact its best had with someone you have a great connection with. Something with abundance can still have or get options, they just don't exercise those option knowing it won't give them what it wants. 

 

Ironically once you take the God pill, and embody godly qualities you have the can have the most abundance yet no longer need sexual relationships but only choose to partake in them out of want. You partake in sexuality, but don't let sexuality take you over. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by zazen

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, zazen said:

The reason pick up gets frowned upon is because people think the guys learning it are being fake, or that they aren't the genuine article. From a evolutionary psychology perspective, if a guy portrayed he's something he's not ie he has enough resources and strong characteristics to take care of the children / protect provide for the family and she pro created with him only to find out it was a lie, thats literally risking her and her child's life. 

2 hours ago, aurum said:

 

There is something called as "heartbreak" that women suffer as well. 

 

 

 

[zazen]

32 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

There is something called as "heartbreak" that women suffer as well. 

 

 

 

I was speaking on evolution which doesn’t care for feelings, just reproduction and survival of the genes. Of course we have emotion and live longer lives now so decisions are made for long term emotional stability and happiness. Another reason how we turned from a polygamous to monogamous society, stability for society and growth of civilisation.

[Preety_India]

9 minutes ago, zazen said:

I was speaking on evolution which doesn’t care for feelings, just reproduction and survival of the genes. Of course we have emotion and live longer lives now so decisions are made for long term emotional stability and happiness. Another reason how we turned from a polygamous to monogamous society, stability for society and growth of civilisation.

When you hurt someone, you create bad karma. 

Emotional Connection can be achieved without hurting anyone. 

 

[aurum]

56 minutes ago, zazen said:

The reason pick up gets frowned upon is because people think the guys learning it are being fake, or that they aren't the article

Because many times they are being fake.

And it’s not this evo-psych narrative that women just don’t want to be impregnated with inferior beta-male genes. No one wants to be manipulated or taken advantage of. It’s egotism and anti-social behavior.

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, aurum said:

No one wants to be manipulated or taken advantage of. It’s egotism and anti-social behavior.

The truth. Wish every man could understand this. 

 

[zazen]

19 minutes ago, aurum said:

Because many times they are being fake.

And it’s not this evo-psych narrative that women just don’t want to be impregnated with inferior beta-male genes. No one wants to be manipulated or taken advantage of. It’s egotism and anti-social behavior.

As Leo mentioned good game is undetectable. Those guys probably never developed those skills for a myriad of reasons growing up, their trying new behaviours which are unnatural to them which comes across in congruent. 
 

The better focus would be in their state of BEing, which translates to their BEhaviours. Pick up used to be focused on the behaviour aspect, now more inner game etc their looking at changing the being, which will naturally bring about attractive behaviours instead of the other way round. Although, give a guy a few attractive behaviours to emulate, he starts getting some success, which changes his state of being, which brings about those behaviours more naturally in the end, and more success. 
 

Yes, it’s not all evo psych but was just making a point I find interesting. A lot of behaviour can be explained from a human nature aspect and/or a human nurture/social conditioning aspect. Human nature is the hardware, human nurture the software.

Edited September 28, 2021 by zazen

[aurum]

28 minutes ago, zazen said:

As Leo mentioned good game is undetectable. Those guys probably never developed those skills for a myriad of reasons growing up, their trying new behaviours which are unnatural to them which comes across in congruent. 
 

I’m not talking about behaviors that are pro-social but just happen to be outside your comfort zone.

If approaching a stranger or asking for a phone number is outside your comfort zone, I agree you need to learn that.

I am talking about having been in the community for many years and witnessing many guys go through it. A lot of what goes down is manipulative and / or anti-social behavior.

This guise of “we’re just learning to become more congruent” is often just a convenient excuse. 

34 minutes ago, zazen said:

The better focus would be in their state of BEing, which translates to their BEhaviours. Pick up used to be focused on the behaviour aspect, now more inner game etc their looking at changing the being, which will naturally bring about attractive behaviours instead of the other way round. Although, give a guy a few attractive behaviours to emulate, he starts getting some success, which changes his state of being, which brings about those behaviours more naturally in the end, and more success. 

That’s the theory at least.

It doesn’t often happen that way. But I agree that more of a focus on inner game is necessary if the community is going to evolve. Its gotta eventually go stage Green. 

Of course by that point, it won’t even be pickup anymore. It will just be socially atuned, emotionally intelligent men being men. And they won’t have much interest in trying to pick up huge numbers of women.

[Girzo]

9 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Authentic relationships don't boast about games. 

You seem to be so against playing games. Yet, with 27,361 posts you are the biggest player on the forums. Why is playing games with people over the internet acceptable, but in real-life relationships not? It's just fun. Nothing is serious in life, especially not some stupid romance. 

[museumoftrees]

16 hours ago, somegirl said:

@museumoftrees It's not to gain control, but we won't sleep until there is some kind of emotional connection. We won't do it just to fill out formalities.

Lol imagine a girl sleeping with every guy she goes on date with, just because a guy can't wait. Sex is not a casual thing for girls, as I said. 

I can't wait to enjoy the deep emotional connection i'll have with a girl who is withholding sex from me because she is too scared that i'll reject her if she has sex with me.

Also, sex isn't a formality. It's rather the absence of sex that is a formality. If you don't want to have sex with someone, you are not attracted to them. People that are attracted to each other want to have sex with each other. Emotional connection and attraction are very different things.