How long do you wait to have sex?

[museumoftrees]

I actually get annoyed by a girl if she tries to wait too long for sex to happen. I usually won't go on more than two dates, three dates maximum. Having sex on the first date is optimal for me. Feeling physical and emotional attraction and instantly consuming it is how I prefer things to be.

I'm not going to be someone's puppy and jump through hoops to have sex with her if she wants to make me wait. I feel like making men wait is how some women try to gain control of men and that can be toxic.

Edited September 28, 2021 by museumoftrees

[somegirl]

@museumoftrees It's not to gain control, but we won't sleep until there is some kind of emotional connection. We won't do it just to fill out formalities.

Lol imagine a girl sleeping with every guy she goes on date with, just because a guy can't wait. Sex is not a casual thing for girls, as I said. 

[Leo Gura]

On 9/27/2021 at 3:43 AM, Preety_India said:

But you forgot one thing. This all should happen naturally. Spontaneously. 

Not in a nerdy formulaic computerized robotic fashion.

Easy for you to say because it's not your job to create it.

Guy has to lead so he cannot be passive about it, he has to architect it. And that requires practice.

What you're really saying is you want a master architect who's made the process so smooth it looks indistinguishable for spontaneous.

But that's like telling a stand-up comedian to not write any jokes and do it all off the top of his head. Sounds easy, but very hard to pull that off in practice. Master comedians spend 1000s of hours training.

I've spent many many hours training my humor just so I can deploy it spontaneously with girls. Now it is natural, but man, training it was anything but natural.

On 9/27/2021 at 3:45 AM, NoSelfSelf said:

@Leo Gura Always wondered what is requered for connection/rapport to be bulit? Usually it happens unconciously but knowing how to bulit it conciously would save alot of time ...dont know where to research that also its always some half baked information...

• Being vulnerable
• Sharing life stories and dreams
• Sharing your values
• Eye contact
• Physical touch
• Finding commonalities and common interests
• Getting emotional together

You gotta learn to consciously create all that on a dime. Don't just sit around waiting for it to happen. CREATE it.

On 9/27/2021 at 4:32 AM, Etherial Cat said:

@Leo Gura

Do you seriously mean that you manage to build in 2 hours intimacy with girls you meet at the club

Well, of course intimacy is a relative notion. You're not going to create in 2 hours the kind of intimacy you get with a 2 year sexual relationship. Sex itself creates intimacy.

But you'd be amazed how much intimacy can be created in 2 hours if you're really shooting for it. Certainly enough for the girl to want sex. It doesn't take much for that. But of course that's still all shallow and it will continue to grow from that point.

The techniques for building intimacy are the same whether it's 2 hrs or 2 years.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

But that's like telling a stand-up comedian to not write any jokes and do it all off the top of his head. Sounds easy, but very hard to pull that off in practice. Master comedians send 1000s of hours training.

Don't you believe that some people can do it naturally without training just like there people who can sing very beautifully naturally and never had an ounce of training in their lives.

So many people with great social skills. Who takes pua training, those who lack social skills, but this is niche population. The bigger part of the population doesn't have social problems 

 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Don't you believe that some people can do it naturally without training

Yes, some guys are lucky enough to be "naturals" but that's not a dependable strategy for solving this issue for most guys.

That's like saying to a bunch of entrepreneurs: But aren't some people just born billionaires?

Everything I talk about assumes that you're trying to become self-made. You start with nothing but brains and ambition, and then you build the life of your dreams.

To me, the whole point of life is to become self-made.

[Hello from Russia]

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The bigger part of the population doesn't have social problems 

 

You sure about that? I personally find 90-95% of people to be clueless about it, even if some of them have relatively some success

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The bigger part of the population doesn't have social problems

Most people are stuck in desperate and miserable relationships that they are too terrified to leave because they know they will be lonely for years to come.

Social, relationship, and sexual abundance is a rare thing that requires serious work to build unless you're really lucky. People would kill to have it, but no one wants to do the work to develop it, because the work is so emotionally challenging. Building my social skills is one of the most challenging things I've undertaken in my life. It is easier for me to earn $1 million dollars. If I could pay someone $1M to do it for me, I would, and it would be worth it. Unfortunately no one can do your pushups for you.

[Leo Gura]

Actually, for you thirsty guys, one of the biggest boss moves you can make is once you got a girl hooked, you withhold sex for a few dates until she is clawing for it like a cat. This will build insane attraction. The only downside is you gotta truly be non-needy, which is hard. Takes skill and experience to pull that off. That's like a grand-master move.

You get her super horny, and then you just drop it and never have sex with her that night.

This is SO powerful that it borders on sadistic mind control. You can totally own her heart with that one. So be careful what you wish for ladies. You just might get it.

Counter-intuitive moves

[Preety_India]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Actually, for you thirsty guys, one of the biggest boss moves you can make is once you got a girl hooked, you withhold sex for a few dates until she is clawing for it like a cat. This will build insane attraction. The only downside is you gotta truly be non-needy, which is hard.

Lmao you're so funny. Being a guy and holding off sex. How is that even possible. They already struggle with nofap 

This is like telling me to not want to eat when you place a big chocolate cake in front of me. Even if you hid, I'm gonna find it. 

You come up with some novel ways lol. 

 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually, for you thirsty guys, one of the biggest boss moves you can make is once you got a girl hooked, you withhold sex for a few dates until she is clawing for it like a cat. This will build insane attraction. The only downside is you gotta truly be non-needy, which is hard.

Also why is neediness such a bad thing unless it's truly cringey and desperate on a terrible level. I actually admire neediness in a guy or else he would look so cold. 

I'm never attracted to cold guys. Some neediness is good. Because as a girl I'm needy as well. So If a guy is needy it's a good match for my wavelength 

 

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I actually admire neediness in a guy

That's because you're needy yourself.

The guy has to be less needy than the girl to maintain attraction. If the girl is super needy and low value she will tolerate a fairly needy low value guy. But the highest value girls are the least needy and will drop needy guys like flies.

It's a value game. If you don't expect high value the game is much easier. As the value approaches zero the game approaches zero.

[StarStruck]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's because you're needy yourself.

The guy has to be less needy than the girl to maintain attraction. If the girl is super needy and low value she will tolerate a fairly needy low value guy. But the highest value girls are the least needy and will drop needy guys like flies.

It's a value game. If you don't expect high value the game is much easier. As the value approaches zero the game approaches zero.

That is so true and it also explains why some girls were interested and lose interests later on. Is it correct to say that the more self-worth one has, the less needy that person is? 

I think another factor that is important is the appearance of not being needy. Through text girls can interpret me as needy while I'm not. 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's because you're needy yourself.

The guy has to be less needy than the girl to maintain attraction. If the girl is super needy and low value she will tolerate a fairly needy low value guy. But the highest value girls are the least needy and will drop needy guys like flies.

I don't consider myself low value. And I don't like low value guys. I have seen plenty of high value guys who are still needy. To me neediness is a psychological and cultural thing rather than attraction or value based thing. I have seen high value girls who are extremely smart and beautiful being needy. 

I myself have had so many relationships so it's not like I'm in deep need of a relationship. Neediness to me is a glue that holds the relationship together. 

I don't like these tricks that you talk about. It's too mechanical, like you said to withhold sex. How can someone have a relationship where they're constantly thinking and planning the next move in the relationship, that already looks quite unhealthy and low value in my opinion. High value relationship would be something that flows effortlessly and spontaneously with no planning on any end. The kind of relationships I had, those people weren't even in pickup, nor any training, and they could effortlessly maintain intimacy with me without having to make moves. 

To me it's all about frequency and not so much about how many people you date or socialize or kind of game. 

If you found the right person, which is more likely to happen if you build your law of attraction vibration and actually wait for the right person to be in your life (this does not mean you shouldn't approach, but you shouldn't make it a score game, just wait for something natural to build up over time, meanwhile still socializing) but once you lock that right person, you feel that "click" and then you find someone on your frequency, then they don't play games with you, as a result, you don't need to do anything special to hold that person. 

This only happens when you like and love someone for who they are and they like and love you for who you're, then there is no competition, because you already found what you wanted, also I don't really like this low value and high value stuff. Value cannot really be decided by anything. I could be with a guy who is homeless today but a millionaire tomorrow. 

Try to focus on real values like commitment and authenticity rather than fake hyped social values. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Is it correct to say that the more self-worth one has, the less needy that person is?

Let's put it this way:

What has the highest self-worth in the Universe? God. God has infinite self-worth since it is everything. And what is God's level of neediness? Zero

Ta-daaa!

Be like God and chicks will love you. God has the ultimate Game. God is the ultimate Player

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I don't consider myself low value. And I don't like low value guys. I have seen plenty of high value guys who are still needy.

Value is a relative thing.

Your standards of value do not run the game for anyone else but yourself.

[Preety_India]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is SO powerful that it borders on sadistic mind control. You can totally own her heart with that one. So be careful what you wish for ladies. You just might get it.

Counter-intuitive moves

To be honest I would leave such a guy. You talk about high value guys and neediness and low value girls. 

To be honest what you just wrote is the pure definition of insecurity. 

If a man has to play games and manipulate and make moves to catch a girl's heart, then he is needier than the average needy guy out there. 

These kind of strategies look poor and make the you look even more low value than the other low value guys. Because a secure guy doesn't feel the need to constantly engage in games to keep someone in control.

Like how low value and insecure is that? 

 

[Proserpina]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Let's put it this way:

What has the highest self-worth in the Universe? God. God has infinite self-worth since it is everything. And what is God's level of neediness? Zero

Ta-daaa!

Be like God and chicks will love you.

Do you think this could apply to women as well? I've attracted guys strongly during channeling (during a mystical experience) and level of neediness was much, much lower than theirs as well as my sense of worth was through the roof. Even though I was overweight, I had groups of men flocking. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Proserpina

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Be like God and chicks will love you. God has the ultimate Game. God is the ultimate Player

This is so silly and childish. And this makes you look so super insecure. 

You just don't know what intimacy even means! 

You have never really fallen for anything other than your own ego 

You want chicks because you want to feel good and that's what really insecurity is all about. 

Trying to feel better using social tools 

You are not authentic at all. 

 

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Like how low value and insecure is that?

It could come from insecurity but doesn't have to.

Most girls actually want their heart owned by the guy they fall in love with. Think about it.

14 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

Do you think this could apply to women as well? I've attracted guys strongly during channeling (during a mystical experience) and level of neediness was much, much lower than theirs as well as my sense of worth was through the roof. Even though I was overweight, I had groups of men flocking. 

Detachment is a universal principle of power.

God is infinitely detached and infinitely powerful. Coincidence?

14 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

This is so silly and childish. And this makes you look so super insecure. 

You just don't know what intimacy even means!

There's nothing more intimate than God

I never said to control people. Controlling people is dumb.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

It could come from insecurity but doesn't have to.

Most girls actually want their heart owned by the guy they fall in love with. Think about it.

Yes definitely. But not the way you describe it. When the girl finds out all kinds of stupid things the guy is doing to own her, she finds it controlling and manipulative and packs her bags. 

You can't create genuine intimacy with fake games. 

 

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Detachment is a universal principle of power.

God is infinitely detached and infinitely powerful. Coincidence?

There's nothing more intimate than God

You are not God. This Detachment is a sign of Coldness and insecurity being masked as Godliness or power. 

If that's what you want, that's what you'll have. 

Real power lies in giving, not in holding back. 

 

[Preety_India]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I never said to control people. Controlling people is dumb.

Only you know what you talk about. Either its manipulation or its playfulness. I have no idea what you're alluding to. 

But you definitely don't make it clear or understood. 

You always make everything look like a large puzzle that needs to be solved. 

Life can be simple if you don't want wanna make it too complicated. 

Smart fingers tend to cut themselves