Distinguishing illusion from reality

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Breakingthewall So my main concern is how to distinguish between the two (illusion and reality). Because you can't for example distinguish your dreams from your waking life.  It turns out that there is no such distinction.  

It's all real =it's all illusion. 

from an absolute point of view, any differentiation is illusion. it is you, with your differentiating activity, who is creating the apparent reality. and you are that: differentiating activity. to completely cease differentiating activity is complete enlightenment, the cessation of the self. there the "real" is manifested, which is the substance of the illusion but without the apparent forms that the activity of the self gives it. just glimpses. total cessation without psychedelics is not common

[Someone here]

10 hours ago, The0Self said:

Exactly. What is unreal appears as real when a knower arises in the appearance. Apparently hiding the lack of any separation of any kind at all between real and unreal, which are the precise exact same, and in fact... not even the same! Because they aren’t even two separate things that could be called “the same.” ? 

Yeah. I guess it's neither real nor illusory. 

All I'm seeing is empty insubstantial ever changing phenomenal content. 

It's something that no label will stick on. 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Yeah. I guess it's neither real nor illusory. 

All I'm seeing is empty insubstantial ever changing phenomenal content. 

It's something that no label will stick on. 

Yes because any label given to THIS is just a concept of a conditioned mind.

It's neither real nor unreal.

It can never be pinned down labeled or hung on a nail because it's everything and simultaneously nothing.

And that's the freedom longed for.... knowing that THIS is completely unknowable. ❤

Edited September 25, 2021 by VeganAwake

[Someone here]

@VeganAwake ?

[Someone here]

I need more input from you guys about this topic. 

[Mason Riggle]

I wonder if there are 'really' illusions, or if illusions are also illusory.   What does 'real' mean? 

[Someone here]

27 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

I wonder if there are 'really' illusions, or if illusions are also illusory.   What does 'real' mean? 

I guess when we think of a dream we assume that there is nothing behind the scenes.. It's just a hallucination... But with the waking reality we assume that there is stuff behind the scenes like atoms and molecules and that grounds our sense of reality. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Someone here

[Mason Riggle]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

I guess when we think of a dream we assume that there is nothing behind the scenes.. It's just a hallucination... But with the waking reality we assume that there is stuff behind the scenes like atoms and molecules and that grounds out sense of reality. 

just recognize that all the 'behind the scenes stuff' exists as more appearances.. there really 'seems' to be that stuff, rather than 'there really IS that stuff'.

The dreams we dream at night are a useful analogy, but the map is not the territory.  Reality isn't 'exactly like a dream', with some sleeping dreamer who is dreaming, dreaming all of this.  

The dream analogy is used to demonstrate how real imagination can seem, and yet, we can still be confused about it's 'realness'.  It's a guide to show you that the SEEMING is what's important... SEEMING is happening, and we can't be confused about that, but we can't know if 'how things seem, is how things are'. 

[Shin]

If it's all illusory you can't call it illusory or real.

[Zeroguy]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I guess when we think of a dream we assume that there is nothing behind the scenes.. It's just a hallucination... But with the waking reality we assume that there is stuff behind the scenes like atoms and molecules and that grounds our sense of reality. 

Yes you imagined your mother into existance. 

All imagined by you and it's all for you lets cut the crap, tired off it. 

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I need more input from you guys about this topic. 

Reality as known and separate from unreality -- that's the illusion. Distinctions appear, but no distinction is ever known. In a sense, this is why enlightenment is associated with the absolute obviousness that there is no "higher level" -- there's no context left for any additional context to arise in, and the appearance has no real knowing or boundedness left. The connection between objects (knowing) isn't needed anymore because it's seen that it never was needed, as there are no objects between which separation could even apply, and thus there's no need to connect what isn't separate. The experience that what appears is limited by meaning or context just stops happening -- very unceremoniously.

Edited October 8, 2021 by The0Self

[Someone here]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:56 PM, Mason Riggle said:

The dream analogy is used to demonstrate how real imagination can seem, and yet, we can still be confused about it's 'realness'.  It's a guide to show you that the SEEMING is what's important... SEEMING is happening, and we can't be confused about that, but we can't know if 'how things seem, is how things are'. 

Bump.. 

So how do I distinguish illusion from reality?  Like for example how do I distinguish between dreams and reality?  How do I know that I'm not dreaming right now? 

[tsuki]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Bump.. 

So how do I distinguish illusion from reality?  Like for example how do I distinguish between dreams and reality?  How do I know that I'm not dreaming right now? 

I've been giving this some thought recently, and investigating into the nature of the dream.

Your, so-called "waking state" is a glorified state which seems more real, simply for the purpose of creating duality between rest and non-rest. This duality is used to mistify your sleep and to create a sacred ritual which covers up the true gifts sleep brings. Then, these gifts, are what you promise to deliver yourself if you stay wakeful and alert. In my particular case, I was promising to myself that I am working to attain freedom and safety.

Of course, there is nothing more freeing and safe than the dream you are experiencing during the night, because even if you have night terrors, then the worst that can happen is to wake you up, or you fall into deep sleep. Coincidentally, this is exactly what happens to you during the so-called "wakeful state", but it is all covered up by the "sacred ritual" of going to bed early.

[RMQualtrough]

If an illusion exists, it is part of reality period. Duality is in fact the most important element of reality because without it there'd BE no reality, just nothing at all forever and ever.

Never do you awake from anything and suddenly magically that's real and nothing else was.

If something happens it's reality. If it wasn't part of reality it could never have happened. You could hallucinate SANTA CLAUS and the fact you saw Santa is real and indisputable.

Edited November 18, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[Someone here]

@tsuki sorry I don't understand your answer. Could you please put it in a different way? 

[tsuki]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@tsuki sorry I don't understand your answer. Could you please put it in a different way? 

Hmm, that would be: why distinguish reality from illusion in the first place?

These are charged concepts that create duality for the sole purpose of fragmenting your awareness.

Edited November 18, 2021 by tsuki

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Hmm, that would be: why distinguish reality from illusion in the first place?

Because I can't stand the fact that I don't know the context of my existence. I don't know whether I'm dreaming or awake right now.. And this uncertainty feels creepy. 

[tsuki]

Just now, Someone here said:

Because I can't stand the fact that I don't know the context of my existence. I don't know whether I'm dreaming or awake right now.. And this uncertainty feels creepy. 

What feels creepy is a thought "I don't know" in the presence of belief that you should.

You are under the impression that reality is somehow better than illusion and that knowing it will somehow make you more noble.

 

All of this kind of thinking is false. Neither will knowing reality, nor living in illusion make you more noble. What you want is to resolve the conflict between the two, but resolution does not lie in more thinking. Thinking and speaking is for communication, not for knowing. Feeling is for knowing, just like you know already that you are in conflict. Do you want to feel good?

[Vibroverse]

Everything is illusion, therefore everything is reality. 

[Someone here]

17 minutes ago, tsuki said:

What feels creepy is a thought "I don't know" in the presence of belief that you should.

You are under the impression that reality is somehow better than illusion and that knowing it will somehow make you more noble.

 

All of this kind of thinking is false. Neither will knowing reality, nor living in illusion make you more noble. What you want is to resolve the conflict between the two, but resolution does not lie in more thinking. Thinking and speaking is for communication, not for knowing. Feeling is for knowing, just like you know already that you are in conflict. Do you want to feel good?

Interesting. So are you sayin I should let go of that distinction between illusion and reality?