Best resources to learn about Spiral Dynamics?

[Late Boomer]

I've gone through most of Leo's videos on the topic and this model really rings true based on my life and what I've observed about society. 

Aside from those videos where should I go next? I want to get a more thorough understanding. Should it be the first or second book by Beck and Cowan? Some have suggested reading Ken Wilber? 

Those who have gone deep into this, what resources have you used? 

[itachi uchiha]

@Husseinisdoingfine @Husseinisdoingfine imo nothing beats spiral dynamics upto  stage yellow.susan coock greuter is not better than spiraldynamic upto stage yellow.sd is very well researched and is crystal clear

[DocWatts]

Leo did a good job of introducing Spiral Dynamics, but it's important to remember that he has his own biases (as everyone inevitably does), so one shouldn't take Leo's word as final on any of the subjects he presents.

[Adodd]

Damn are there really not more people on this forum woth thoughts on this? I have this same question.

@Late Boomer Did you do any deeper research?

[Leo Gura]

You've been given all the theory. If you really want to learn it you have to actually grow through the Spiral stages yourself. That's where the real learning of it is.

[Preety_India]

You slowly slowly go from one to another. 

I went from Blue to Green. But I struggle at yellow. So I'm still at Green developmentally and ethically.

 

[Adodd]

@Leo Gura thanks. This moght spund like I'm being picky but are these prerequisites to the stage videos?

[Leo Gura]

@Adodd No, those are meant to be watched after the stage videos.

[Adodd]

@Preety_India I feel the same way about myself. Feel like I skipped integrating orange. Maybe thats an issue? This is coming from little understanding of the subject though. Looking forward to understanding this better. Seems like it will be productive.

[Loving Radiance]

3 hours ago, Adodd said:

Feel like I skipped integrating orange. Maybe thats an issue? This is coming from little understanding of the subject though.

Instead of grasping for higher stages go integrate the ones you innocently made a shadow of. A solid foundation for any structure makes more sense than just building up higher and higher. But maybe you have to learn the lesson yourself. Maybe you have to try reaching for the sky without grounding and then realize that the highest tree needs deep roots.

It can require letting go of one's pride or precious self-image to go work on the foundation and invite self-acceptance of one's true position in life.

[AdroseAkise]

@Late Boomer Forget everything that everyone else on this thread just said, the only real way to learn about SDi is to read the book and then later watch videos on YouTube of Ph.D. Dr. Don Edward Beck presenting the model in his own words.

[AdroseAkise]

And when I mean the only way, I really mean it. Even the way Leo presented it, I found it to be rather flawed and misleading. Except for is red and purple videos, which were spot on. 

[DocWatts]

12 hours ago, AdroseAkise said:

And when I mean the only way, I really mean it. Even the way Leo presented it, I found it to be rather flawed and misleading. Except for is red and purple videos, which were spot on. 

Yeah worth keeping in mind that those videos are Leo's own perspective on Spiral Dynamics, and intertwined with his own worldview and spiritual practice. 

As for Spiral Dynamics itself, I think it has far more utility as a sociological model for examining the dialectical interplay of meta-ideologies, than it has as a personal development model (for which something like Suzanne Cook-Greuter's model or the Model of Hierarchical Complexity is a much better fit).

Edited November 23, 2021 by DocWatts

[MotivatedByMusic177]

I've been mostly focusing on contemplating,journaling and a spirtual practice with lots of dedication. 

[Bernardo Carleial]

On 22/11/2021 at 3:22 AM, Leo Gura said:

You've been given all the theory. If you really want to learn it you have to actually grow through the Spiral stages yourself. That's where the real learning of it is.

I agree with @Leo Gura on that one.

The Spiral Dynamics is a book to get to know the theoretical/conceptual research that was developed in that model, and the actualized videos cover those pretty well,  even with the "human biases", and apart from that there's nothing you can learn on SD that will compete with your direct experience...

But, @Late Boomer  ,even with all of that being said, you still want to get more knowledge... I'll  recommend the following books:?

1- Spiral Dynamics - Don Beck & Christopher Cowan

2- Integral Psychology - Ken Wilber

3- Motivation and Personality - Abraham Maslow 

I won't talk about Susan Cook-Greuter here, because I still haven't studied her model yet...

Edited November 23, 2021 by Bernardo Carleial

[Preety_India]

I think Leo's videos on Spiral Dynamics were probably the best resource I found. He is quite clear and detailed about each stage. 

 

[Adodd]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:22 PM, Loving Radiance said:

Instead of grasping for higher stages go integrate the ones you innocently made a shadow of. A solid foundation for any structure makes more sense than just building up higher and higher. But maybe you have to learn the lesson yourself. Maybe you have to try reaching for the sky without grounding and then realize that the highest tree needs deep roots.

@Loving Radiance What does a healthy stage orange even look like? Seems like the trap stage to me. I was a stage blue christian with some orange until I did dmt. I very quickly after this became more orange in the sense of thinking religion was stupid and judging Christians as ignorant even though I recently was one. I always thought about how living for an afterlife is a waste of THIS life and living for now instead. This seems orange to me but only lasted maybe a year before I became vegan, recycle, very into the climate change crisis, more empathetic etc. I feel myself getting deeper and deeper green but never got very deeply orange. I'm honestly not sure what all else orange has to offer to me.

I guess I still want and am working towards a improving my house to a nicer house and still do want more money. But only enough to be able to more easily cover bills and any repairs that pop up. Not ever worrying about money for gas would be nice but thats as far as it goes.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Adodd

[Adodd]

Leo says explaining orange a lot of times is like explaining water to a fish. Maybe thats what is going on. Self reliance feels important to me and I do still want growth and to improve myself and finances but have no interest in being Mr. hotshot or top dog. I value hard work to get this improvement but I'm definitely not interested in improvement at the expense of others.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Adodd

[Bernardo Carleial]

8 hours ago, Adodd said:

Self reliance feels important to me and I do still want growth and to improve myself and finances but have no interest in being Mr. hotshot or top dog. I value hard work to get this improvement but I'm definitely not interested in improvement at the expense of others.

Dude, what you have written is already a good example of vMEME Blue/Orange...

The problem is that people associate the stages only with their stereotypes,  a top CEO or a priest for example, which is dangerous,  because people that are more advanced at the spiral might look at the previous stages and see their excesses as unealthy and don't want to associate themselves with their values... this is a big misconception that I see people make all the time when it comes to SD.

The fact that you want to improve yourself and to develop some self-discipline and work ethic already shows that you embodied the healthy aspects of Blue and Orange... a religious fanatic and a Billionaire are just the extremes of that stage, there are more subtleties regarding them, and you have to be grateful that you got those, otherwise you wouldn't be vMEME Green.??

Just as an aside... some about your post puzzled me... you said you moved from orange to green very quickly,  that's very uncommon because to move from one's previous paradigm to another requires a lot of shadow work, otherwise you can create a repression to a particular stage, I'm gonna send you a video of Ken Wilber in which he explains exactly what I'm talking about.

Wish you all the best @Adodd ??

 

[Loving Radiance]

6 hours ago, Adodd said:

Seems like the trap stage to me.

You can make yourself get trapped in any stage. Traps: Orange likes for example to turn secularism into a second religion. The paradigm of secular materialism can be quite imprisoning when the culture is at the same level and one cannot see & envision beyond that. There is also more isolation from nature (cause it's just resources to be used) and less human-centered interaction which is then opened up at green.

6 hours ago, Adodd said:

I very quickly after this became more orange in the sense of thinking religion was stupid and judging Christians as ignorant even though I recently was one. I always thought about how living for an afterlife is a waste of THIS life and living for now instead.

So, all this judgement is fine, but did you actually change the way you lived your life in that year? Did you focus on winning, getting to the top and primarily wanted to be materially rich (having good looking clothes, car, house, lifestyle)? Was your focus on practical hands-on self-help to make yourself productive and out-compete others? Did you want to get recognition for your success?

The thing is that Green emerges best when you exhaust Orange like you having burnout after the one year and turning to parts of life that are feeling good to your heart. A good way to ask yourself is: Do I avoid some part of life like being productive & opportunistic by going into Green when I know I should have the foundation of material security settled? It can also be a trap to disregard Orange when you want to dive deep into Green.

1. Search for a healthy role model

2. Study their work, thinking, system of values and life princples

3. Emulate how they think, model them and satisfy those needs what they are trying to satisfy

4. Make sure you watch out for possible limitations and toxic tendencies

8 hours ago, Adodd said:

I guess I still want and am working towards a improving my house to a nicer house and still do want more money. But only enough to be able to more easily cover bills and any repairs that pop up. Not ever worrying about money for gas would be nice but thats as far as it goes.

You can do all that. What the limitation would be is to search for satisfaction or purpose in having a nicer house instead of making it just a nicer living environment. But don't worry much about limitations. Just be aware of excesses in your life.

Well you now recognize that you don't want to have any serious worries about gas money. Perhaps you just need the gas money