Why Can One Remember The Expirience Of Enlightenment?

[Scholar]

If we take the current understanding and model of the brain, how is it possible that there is a clear memory of the expirience within the mind of the "subject"?

I understand the implication that awareness and the mind are non-dual, but how would one conceptualize that process?

 

Let's say the human condition is a wave in an infinite ocean, and the rising and falling of the wave is the birth and death of the human (if we use an analogy that has already been used preciously). Now, the expirience of enlightenment would be the wave becoming aware that it never was the wave, but infact the water that composes the wave. And then it becomes aware of the fact that there is no seperation between the water that composes the wave, and the infinite amount of water within the ocean. It becomes aware of the fact that the condition is the movement of the water, that the human mind is infact awareness in a certain state. We could say that an unaware wave would be one that is merely aware of the surface. It tries to describe how the surface behaves (how our mind behaves) but it never really looks at what the surface is.

But, how exactly does the ocean have direct influence on the properties of the wave? Because we know that becoming aware of the infinite ocean clearly changes the wave. We can observe that rather quickly by simply being aware of colour. Being aware of colour is a process within our mind that would not exist if colour would not exist. Does that mean that the model of our brain as in current scientific understanding is flawed in it's nature? Because as far as scienitific methods go, we pretty much try to describe everything with the model of atoms. But clearly, if we try to understand the mind, we see that there must be something that somehow influences the atoms in another way than we would expect them to behave, because there is the process of awareness that has a significant influence on the direct state of the atomic structure of the brain. For example memories created out of expiriences, and I mean expiriences of awareness.

Now, is this model completely flawed because it assumes that whatever atoms might be are seperated from the awareness itself? I mean, at the current moment there are alot of scientists that completely ignore the mind-body problem, they literally denie that the mind exists. I think the cause of that confusion might be the flawed nature of the conceptualized model of the mind and the body. That infact, the non-dual nature is what would solve that problem entirely. Now, how do we conceptualize a model that is based upon that?

In other words, how does the current desciption of physics leave room for something like awareness influencing atomic structures themselves? Or even better, how does one create a model the unifies both the behaviour and the function? Because clearly, if we want to conceptualize the mind, we will never get there with the current understanding of the mind. We have literally created an entire field that is based on a seemingly false presumption.

 

How would we go about solving this?

[Prabhaker]

45 minutes ago, Scholar said:

And then it becomes aware of the fact that there is no seperation between the water that composes the wave

And then wave merges in ocean, wave cease to exist then. 

[Prabhaker]

56 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Why Can One Remember The Experience Of Enlightenment?

Enlightenment is not an experience.

It is the state where you are left absolutely alone, nothing to know. No object, howsoever beautiful, is present. Only in that moment does your consciousness, unobstructed by any object, take a turn and move back to the source. It becomes self-realization, it becomes enlightenment.

When you come to a point when all experiences are absent, when there is no object, then consciousness without obstruction moves in a circle—in existence everything moves in a circle, if not obstructed—it comes from the same source of your being, goes around. Finding no obstacle to it—no experience, no object—it moves back, and the subject itself becomes the object.

That’s what J. Krishnamurti, for his whole life, continued to say: that when the observer becomes the observed, know that you have arrived.

[Scholar]

21 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Enlightenment is not an experience.

It is the state where you are left absolutely alone, nothing to know. No object, howsoever beautiful, is present. Only in that moment does your consciousness, unobstructed by any object, take a turn and move back to the source. It becomes self-realization, it becomes enlightenment.

When you come to a point when all experiences are absent, when there is no object, then consciousness without obstruction moves in a circle—in existence everything moves in a circle, if not obstructed—it comes from the same source of your being, goes around. Finding no obstacle to it—no experience, no object—it moves back, and the subject itself becomes the object.

That’s what J. Krishnamurti, for his whole life, continued to say: that when the observer becomes the observed, know that you have arrived.

Now we need to explain it in the framework of the conceptualized mind, because this explanation you have given does not help us at all to understand the brain. Or maybe I just don't understand.

[Bob84]

Nothing can not be explained by something.
In a sense one can not remember the "Experience Of Enlightenment".

[Neo]

Are there any scientific theories or studies done on the "Experience Of Enlightenment" in general? I mean, even though that would go against the grain here, has no-one attempted it?

Edited December 13, 2016 by Neo

[Scholar]

On 13.12.2016 at 9:09 AM, Bob84 said:

Nothing can not be explained by something.
In a sense one can not remember the "Experience Of Enlightenment".

So if they cannot remember, how can they even know it exists? I mean, the minds of people who expirienced no-ego are farely certain that it does exist. How does one know that it's not a trick of the mind?

[Bob84]

16 hours ago, Scholar said:

So if they cannot remember, how can they even know it exists? I mean, the minds of people who expirienced no-ego are farely certain that it does exist. How does one know that it's not a trick of the mind?

Faith.