Limitations Of Language And Mindful 'labeling'

[Visionary]

I've been practicing mindful labeling for over a year now. And since recently i've stopped doing that. I'm now fully emerging in my sensory world without putting anything into words. Alan Watts in 'the limits of language' describes this so beautifully. By putting reality into words, you are altering reality. You are missing information by expressing the reality in lanaguage. Since i've stopped labeling the progress seems to skyrocket. 

I'm kind of a rookie on this personal development path. Does anyone have any tips on how to avoid the limits of language better? Or how to surrender better to the sensory world? 

Peace

[Dodo]

I think i just found better labeling for enlightenment - to flow with life /whatever is/. Do you think this is better?

[Shin]

Quote

First of all, we should use "our" names to present third person narrative, when we refer to the person that we are NOT!

"Snick thinks...etc"

Would help, but for now, if you don't like be chained to a chair 23 hours a day, I would suggest not to ^^

[Visionary]

1 hour ago, Dodoster said:

I think i just found better labeling for enlightenment - to flow with life /whatever is/. Do you think this is better?

Yes! By letting go the urge to put everything in a linguistic framework, I also automatically let go of expectations and seem to flow with the moment. Thoughts seem to come up less also. Good one!

 

1 hour ago, Snick said:

 

Maybe we should communicate more via a system of "sounds" in the future, instead of only words! 

Crying and laughing are sounds that has been programed in to every person in order to communicate important emotional states! Sounds might be closer to true and non-dual understanding then words! 

And what is the potential of a Language that only contain words? If you look at it hypothetically, is it possible to construct a language that is equal to any language of today, in respect to it's complexity and ability for abstract reasoning, but without any notion of duality?

Because all languages of today has that dual assumption build in!

That's why you constantly read those foolish and stupid expression, like,.. small "I", capital Y "You", real "I"  personal "I" seperate "you" etc etc.

Looks awful, but what can we do really? 

 

Yeah, I think i've read about the evolution of human communication slowly moving that way (i could be wrong, not so sure about this). Watts speaks of certain Shamanic cultures where Shamans are not allowed to speak for 1 year. This shifts their consciousness. They see reality in a completely different way.

[Leo Gura]

@Visionary  Labeling is supposed to be like training wheels.

Although even masters can still use labeling. After years of practice, it becomes so automatic that it doesn't get in your way. But of course, you can choose to drop labels if you want to. Just notice that you will be more prone to slipping back out of mindfulness.

If you want to understand language, the ultimate solution is to contemplate: What is language? How did language arise in me? What is it's purpose? Who am I speaking to inside my head?

There's A LOT to discover in contemplating that very deeply.

[Kserkkj]

@Visionary I think once you have some mindfulness down, it's time to start investigating the 3 characteristics of reality according to a book I read. Maybe you're falling into some traps, or you're lacking the concentration needed for clear investigation. I'm a newbie by the way, and haven't done any noting practice before so can't say much about your case.

[Visionary]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Visionary  Labeling is supposed to be like training wheels.

Although even masters can still use labeling. After years of practice, it becomes so automatic that it doesn't get in your way. But of course, you can choose to drop labels if you want to. Just notice that you will be more prone to slipping back out of mindfulness.

If you want to understand language, the ultimate solution is to contemplate: What is language? How did language arise in me? What is it's purpose? Who am I speaking to inside my head?

There's A LOT to discover in contemplating that very deeply.

Thank you Leo! Just started contemplating and was already mindblown. Immediately experienced how language triggers thoughts and builds concepts. Great advice.

[ajasatya]

@Visionary as dogen zenji said, realization and practice are the same thing. the best way to avoid language is by practicing enlightenment. zazen is solid and straightforward.

if you practice with proper effort, your mind-body experience will embody the enlightened conditioning. as a very tangible result, you'll be able to silence your mind almost anytime you want. it takes you into a deep state of peace and compassion.

Edited December 12, 2016 by ajasatya

[Arman]

My friend has a two year old son who often kind of babbles or speaks gibberish. Upon observing him, it feels clear at least to me that he is communicating, but more in a feeling or energetic way than by connecting words to thought forms. More an imitation of expressions or feeling ideas that exert themselves through sound. 

A bit like the same way we'd act if we were to comically imitate another language by making sounds and moving our hands, but not necessarily having any particular idea in mind.  This is the more natural communication, before we are stifled by words.

Consider your need to label as just further energetic phenomena. Your insistence that it is limiting reality could potentially be a denial or reality, because what are your labels if not spontaneous manifestations of the moment? 

If you want to further surrender, stop looking as thought forms or labels as any different to birds you might see, or a colour or sound. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Arman