What should we do with murderers, rapists, terrorists etc?

[Late Boomer]

16 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

So you mean that we should set all prisoners free and never punish anyone? Or what is your point?

Did I say that? Just saying if your culture's prison population is unusually large it might have something to do with your culture. You can't change some criminals, but you can change your culture.

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

9 minutes ago, Late Boomer said:

Did I say that? Just saying if your culture's prison population is unusually large it might have something to do with your culture. You can't change some criminals, but you can change your culture.

+1

[GoobyBooby]

14 minutes ago, Late Boomer said:

Did I say that? Just saying if your culture's prison population is unusually large it might have something to do with your culture. You can't change some criminals, but you can change your culture.

How many non-violent people are incarcerated from having psychedelics? (weed, mushrooms, lsd, etc) 

[ArcticGong]

Just imagine the spiral view on all these groups of people. A stage green hippie would consider a Vietnam vet a murderer, while a stage blue person considers that person a hero. A stage orange film director who uses his position for sex would be considered a rapist by stage green and blue people, even though it would be legal under the law. And Mandela is considered a terrorist by blue English MPs pre- 1991, and after he is considered a hero post-1994. Maybe I'm too relativistic, but all of these labels are sometimes fluid.

[roopepa]

1 hour ago, Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj said:

Question this!

lol

[martins name]

You should view punishment, not as revenge but as a purely pragmatic thing to do for the betterment of most people possible. This is possible while loving criminals. Love vs punishment is a false dichotomy.

[Late Boomer]

11 minutes ago, martins name said:

You should view punishment, not as revenge but as a purely pragmatic thing to do for the betterment of most people possible. This is possible while loving criminals. Love vs punishment is a false dichotomy.

Exactly. Do what you have to, but that's enough.

There's an attitude I hear expressed a lot that punishment of a heinous crime should also be heinous: Rapists deserve to get raped in prison, torturers should be tortured, killers should be killed, etc. 

That I disagree with. If your society acts on that, it's not just doing what's necessary, it's justifying and getting off on cruelty to someone perceived as a non-human or a devil.

That's probably exactly how that criminal saw his victim, so if we condone that we're projecting our shadow, we're endorsing the idea that some people are non-human or devils.

Once you believe that it won't stay in the realm of criminal justice. You're now capable of doing heinous acts if the authorities won't do them for you. That's the principle of a lynch mob. 

[ArcticGong]

1 hour ago, Late Boomer said:

Exactly. Do what you have to, but that's enough.

There's an attitude I hear expressed a lot that punishment of a heinous crime should also be heinous: Rapists deserve to get raped in prison, torturers should be tortured, killers should be killed, etc. 

That I disagree with. If your society acts on that, it's not just doing what's necessary, it's justifying and getting off on cruelty to someone perceived as a non-human or a devil.

That's probably exactly how that criminal saw his victim, so if we condone that we're projecting our shadow, we're endorsing the idea that some people are non-human or devils.

Once you believe that it won't stay in the realm of criminal justice. You're now capable of doing heinous acts if the authorities won't do them for you. That's the principle of a lynch mob. 

Agree.

[PurpleTree]

how can a first world country still have the death penalty?  

[Human Mint]

In my opinion, it is the red to blue ascension. You gotta communicate with a fairly amount of agression, not with the intention to hurt, but because they will only understand most things if there is violence in the middle. And they must see that you believe in a betterment of society. Requires mastery as f**

[roopepa]

3 hours ago, martins name said:

You should view punishment, not as revenge but as a purely pragmatic thing to do for the betterment of most people possible. This is possible while loving criminals. Love vs punishment is a false dichotomy.

Well yes, I understand and I agree that obviously we should not let people do anything they want. But as I understand the term "punish", it basically means a revenge.

To put it simply: I dont think anyone deserves a punishment.

Edited September 20, 2021 by roopepa

[martins name]

@roopepa How I use the word punishment is just as material feedback to someone's destructive actions. You are right that the word comes with the emotional baggage of deserving. I agree with you that none deserves punishment or suffering. It is simply a material action with the purpose of creating a system where the maximum amount of well-being and flourishing is possible. That is an expression of love.

[snowyowl]

On the subject of giving therapy to criminals, well unfortunately there isn't nearly enough money & therapists to go around for all the law abiding citizens who need it, so giving it in priority to law breakers is just unfair and will create a backlash (ie more people voting for right wing law & order politics). 

But I get that some mentally ill people end up in prison because of a lack of help when they needed it. Also other criminals can be prevented from a life of crime by better education, and job opportunities early in life before they get on the wrong track. Ie putting the resources into more social equality in the community, better policing and youth activities to stop the gang culture from sucking in new recruits.

Prison is extremely expensive and every inmate prevented from crime in the first place releases funds which should be recycled back into the community. But unfortunately we are seeing more inequality instead.