What should we do with murderers, rapists, terrorists etc?

[roopepa]

At some point, you can't really deny anymore that these people also deserve love and goodness. Of course.

Yet, we can't let people break the rules, since the rules make it possible for us to survive and create the good life.

It doesn't really make sense to punish anyone. "You're bad because you broke the rules I believe in. You deserve a punishment." That's just silly. But we also can't let these people keep doing these things. So, what's the solution? How can we love, yet restrict freedom at the same time? What's the right balance here?

Obviously there is no right answers. But I'd like to hear what you think.

[PurpleTree]

i think the way we do it in a lot of european countries is probably the best we can do right now

 

lock them away from society for the time of their sentence but in a decent prison with humane conditions give them therapy etc.

[PurpleTree]

also don't give people 100 yrs jail time, that's nuts

 

i think the max here is 20 yrs

[Preety_India]

My empathy cannot be universal. 

My empathy is differential. 

Which means my empathy radically changes from group to group and is conditional. 

My empathy is strongest for victims and sufferers 

While maintaining this empathy I cannot in the same moment empathize with those who inflict suffering, that would look unfair and unjust to the victim. 

So i barely have any empathy for criminals, rapists and terrorists. My empathy sides with the people hunted by these people. 

The only time I had a slight empathy for a killer was for Richard Ramirez the night stalker. I learned that he had a horrible past and suffered brutality growing up. That made me sympathize with him a little bit. Not justifying his crimes but what he went through was terrible and could have contributed to his actions 

Not all criminals are simply a product of upbringing. That would be a gross overstatement. There are many criminals who had a smooth or normal upbringing and yet chose a path of criminality to have more power. 

No mercy to such people. Lock them away far away 

So innocents never have to suffer their egomania and sociopathy

 

 

[SriSriJustinBieber]

Jail must be replaced by therapy and healing basically

[Zigzag Idiot]

1 minute ago, SriSriJustinBieber said:

Jail must be replaced by therapy and healing basically

@SriSriJustinBieber I agree

With our current  penal system inmates just become institutionalized. If someone goes in for much time at all there’s a good chance they will be more prone to criminal behavior when they get out. They’re  branded as a convicted felon and scapegoated by society more often than not. Their prejudiced against when looking for a legitimate job or finding a place to rent. They’re branded with permanent blame which results in a permanent stain of guilt. The  Prisons we currently have are crooked and are for profit not rehabilitation. The system we have Is broken and it needs to be fixed by applying some common sense measures and utilizing perhaps some S.D. tier 2 people ,,,, ?‍♂️ Just a thought,,

I don’t deny that there is a small percentage who will not rehabilitate and are just pathological. 

[Preety_India]

Well I do agree that criminals should get therapy and healing and rehab within the confines of a prison system, I still think that it can only bring a marginal change in their behavior. 

However just because they behave well, they shouldn't be trusted or released out of prison on any grounds. 

If they do show good behavior and remorse, I think they could be given resources like books and art supplies or anything that they can build a life purpose or career with behind jail. 

Yet whatever positive treatment they are given, whether they rehabilitate or not, they should still be made to serve the entire sentence. 

There is no excuse for criminal behavior and no substitute for justice. 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Preety_India

[Zigzag Idiot]

Dualistic thinking just perpetuates the problems.

[Preety_India]

You do realize that a certain deterrent has to be set in society so that potential criminals fear the system.. 

We aren't going to be singing Kumbaya with criminals. 

C'mon now. 

Why even bother to put them in prison if they have to be coddled? 

Lets build a 5 start hotel for them, while showering them with empathy, why put these innocent souls in prison?

In order to prevent crime we need to have a safer society where we bring up children in the best environments, give them good education, and create a loving environment so they don't turn into criminals to begin with. 

However this is not to mean, that a loving environment won't have criminals in them, there are children who have murdered their most loving parents, there are people who have shown sociopathy despite being raised in best conditions. 

One way to prevent crime is to get rid of poverty, create better living conditions and a loving environment for children, yet another way to prevent crime is to set deterrents to send a warning that crime will carry punishment. 

You can't send a criminal with a slap on the wrist, that would be a fatal mistake 

If you look into many criminal cases, you'll find many criminals who were let off after a light punishment, went on to commit more gruesome crimes. 

Had they been locked longer or given stricter punishments or never let out, some lives would have been saved. 

Case in point. TED BUNDY. He escaped prison and went on to commit more crimes. In prison he was mostly given a sober treatment because nobody believed he was capable of such heinous crimes. Yet when he found a way out, he continued his crime spree. 

You can't take criminals for granted, and if you do, you're inadvertently taking victims for granted, remember that. 

 

 

[Nos7algiK]

5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

lock them away from society for the time of their sentence but in a decent prison with humane conditions give them therapy etc.

Agreed. The way some prisoners are treated is just inhumane regardless of their crimes. Having such conditions will only harbor hatred in someone heart instead of trying to work with each individually in attempt to rehabilitate them from their core. Not everyone can be fixed, but just because not everyone will be fixed doesn't mean that no one deserves a fair chance at therapy then.

Universal love is important here. Polarizing love is not love, it is a comforting lie we tell to ourselves using the negative actions of a few for our ego to justify the polarization itself. We all have equal value in the grand scheme of things and whatever they have done in life is equally as important as the greatest saint to live. God makes no mistakes.

[Late Boomer]

Lock them up as needed, but make sure your punishment doesn't make your society as evil as the criminals you're trying to punish. There are degrees of crime and levels of criminality. You don't treat a petty thief like a murderer. There are also people who get caught up in violent situations for survival reasons. Note that a lot of the gansta rappers of the '90s quit their behavior once they no longer needed to engage in it. 

But even supposing you have a real animal on your hands, a Ted Bundy, for example, your punishment should still be humane. If you torture them the way they did their victims, they're not going to learn anything. You're just doing it because you get off on it, the same way they did. Because the system is punishing them and you feel they deserve it, you feel justified, but that's not an excuse. 

There is a music video by Coil for the song Cold Cell that makes you think about the morality of inhumane punishment even for the undeniably guilty. The persona giving the convict's prayer doesn't deny guilt at all, he's totally guilty, but he's still a human. The video contains footage from a Russian youth prison. It's really sad.

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Late Boomer
added clarifying sentence

[Epikur]

Depends if they are antivaxx then they deserve torture. If they are provaxx we should respect their freedom even if that creates minor situations.

In all seriousness we should do what we are doing till science finds a solution.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Epikur

[ArcticGong]

Why does some society spawn more crazy than others is my follow-up question? I don't want to abuse stats, but, why does 4% of the world keep an unproportionate high prison population, 25% of the inmates of the world. 

Another important factor to consider is who does the labeling? For example, Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist, today, however, many consider him a freedom fighter who ended an unjust system.

And rape is also a term that has changed its definition. There used to be a time when rapists were given lighter sentences because their victims were dressed provocatively.  

I think we should keep improving our families, schools, and courts.  Acknowledge our weaknesses, such as our bias, and improve our strengths, such as thriftiness.  Our democratic society is good in many aspects, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive for improvement.

Edited September 19, 2021 by ArcticGong
grammer

[Late Boomer]

4 minutes ago, ArcticGong said:

Why does some society spawn more crazy than others, is this my follow-up question? I don't want to abuse stats, but, why does 4% of the world keep an unproportionate high prison population, 25% of the inmates of the world. 

I can answer that one. When you have a permanent underclass and don't want to admit it, you make sure they stay in ghettos which are high crime areas by definition. Then when they commit crimes or try to leave said ghetto, you find a way to put them in prison so the haves won't have to share with the have nots. They are considered excess people in your society, so you warehouse them, one way or another so you don't have to look at them and wonder why they exist. 

[ArcticGong]

5 minutes ago, Late Boomer said:

I can answer that one. When you have a permanent underclass and don't want to admit it, you make sure they stay in ghettos which are high crime areas by definition. Then when they commit crimes or try to leave said ghetto, you find a way to put them in prison so the haves won't have to share with the have nots. They are considered excess people in your society, so you warehouse them, one way or another so you don't have to look at them and wonder why they exist. 

I agree. I'm lucky to be brought up in a country with a lot of opportunities and a genuine pursuit of fairness. However, some developed countries are all slogans and rights for me, and not so much attention on everyone else's rights, historically speaking. 

[Blackhawk]

The current solution is best.

Please, please don't be naive.

Don't underestimate evil.

If you give a loving hug to a lion, it will kill you, so for the love of God, please don't be naive. Unfortunately this is the reality we live in, you have to be realistic.

Some criminals don't deserve to be free.

Put them in jail, and also give them therapy while they are in jail. That's how it already works.

And yes some evil people needs to be locked up for life. Unfortunately that's the reality we live in. There's nothing loving about letting those people out and let them cause more death, destruction and suffering.

In Sweden the punishments are actually too low. The criminality rate has gone up and the criminals are more evil, so the punishments needs to be adjusted to that (be increased), and fortunately that's about to happen soon.

[Late Boomer]

11 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Don't underestimate evil.

Don't underestimate your culture's evil either. 

[Blackhawk]

6 minutes ago, Late Boomer said:

Don't underestimate your culture's evil either. 

So you mean that we should set all prisoners free and never punish anyone? Or what is your point?

Edited September 19, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

Lock em up! The obsession with trying to rehabilitate, empathize and humanize criminals is naive and really disrespectful towards the victim of violent crimes. I think that it's really important for the victim that the punnishment for the crime creates a sense of justice.

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

On 2021-09-16 at 11:20 PM, roopepa said:

At some point, you can't really deny anymore that these people also deserve love and goodness. Of course.

 

It doesn't really make sense to punish anyone. 

Question this!