Interview with Frank Yang on the difference between Enlightenment and Psychedelics

[Lauritz]

I recently did an interview with Frank Yang. We also talked about the role of cessations in dissolving identifications. Because this was mentioned by @Leo Gura in his interview with Curt Jaimungal on the Theories of Everything podcast, I think you might value Franks direct feedback on that topic.

If you want to skip ahead, this question starts at minute 46. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4_ywwsbkBc

 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Lauritz

[Adamq8]

I wouldnt say that Leo is stuck at all.

GOD is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent. 

That explains it all, and if the universe can both appear to exist and also disappear for a fraction of a second, does not in any way dispute the infinite nature of GOD.

But also, GOD is both transcendent and Immanent,  meaning that, every non place you imagine or experience,  GOD IS.

GOD is not just an experience, GOD is reality or every non reality you imagine.

GOD is both infinite, finite, both, neither, everything, nothing, and transcendent of it.

GOD is not just infinite conciousness  GOD is also every other being or non being you might imagine. 

Thats why it is called the Absolute, and thats why Leo is not stuck cause he is transmitting thr highest teachings of GOD.

It is completly unlimited in how it can appear or dissappear.

But the only difference is that all non being and non experiences is like it never happend.

Imagine deep sleep, it passes in an instant, and thats why I can imagine Leo says there is only existence. 

Because by definition, non existence is not possible.

If non existence were true non existence, there would be no coming back to life.

So the word non existence is a troubling word that creates alot of confusion.

Ive listened to both Leo and Frank and to their suprise perhaps, their teaching is ALMOST identical. 

There is really no difference between the two, only in language and concept.

Which does not reflect reality.

Thats just my two cents ?

[Adamq8]

But I would like to say this, instead of getting lost in semantics,  Leo and Frank can together produce an awesome platform. 

Instead of commenting on each others progress etc, they could help others awake, but then they have to both admit the validitity of both of their states and Insights. 

That is what non duality community should strive for.

To unite and bring together instead of getting into discussions about what is what etc.

I once said that I don't think a conversation between the two would be productive, not if they insist on defending their position, instead they should transcend that and speak about reality/universe/god together, they would produce tremendous resuls together in the relative domain so to speak.

Because if you get down to the teachings of both, it is not really a big difference at all.

Leo is a excellent teacher of mind, mind games and on psychedelics and god, philosophy etc

Frank is excellent on meditation/sensations and so forth, he is an excellent teacher when it comes to meditation and so forth.

The two combined would be complete.

But it just creates more confusion when the two get stuck in language and concept, when in fact they do point to the same thing or non thing ?

Truth needs to get out there, and not through alot of disagreements, it will not gain the attention it needs when one only sees disagreements within the non dual community it sorta sends the message that it is just some community which believes in the teachings etc but that it is not truth etc.

[Thought Art]

Has yang tripped?

[TheLoneSage]

@Thought Art I know frank has done dmt once and 5 meo at least 2 times 

Edited September 16, 2021 by TheLoneSage

[Thought Art]

@TheLoneSage Ain't enough 

[TheLoneSage]

@Thought Art seems like it to me 

 

[Thought Art]

@TheLoneSage I don't doubt he understand meditation but 2 trips is not enough. It's like, you can't even get your bairings at that point. I don't really trust Yang yet either. That is just my bias. 

Anyone can talk about something. I will watch later I think I have seen these.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Thought Art

[Michal__]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@TheLoneSage I don't doubt he understand meditation but 2 trips is not enough. It's like, you can't even get your bairings at that point. I don't really trust Yang yet either. That is just my bias. 

Anyone can talk about something. I will watch later I think I have seen these.

He has tried other psychadelics as well, it's not just 2 trips.

[Adamq8]

He has not anywhere near sufficent understanding of psychedelics even if he tripped 10 times, it is required atleast a 100 trips , seriously, but that does not mean that he is any less valid or anything,  but I would listen to Leo more when it comes to psychedelics,  but that is just my opinion.

Meditation is certainly Frank's strong side ?

 

 

[Thought Art]

28 minutes ago, Adamq8 said:

He has not anywhere near sufficent understanding of psychedelics even if he tripped 10 times, it is required atleast a 100 trips , seriously. 

But he claims he experiences deep psychedelics trip like experiences in meditation, i dont know but perhaps thats true ?

 

Yeah, people think psychedelics are just drugs or a quick fix.

No, they are a serious field of mastery. I've learned this and plan on mastering it over the next 50 years.

[Lauritz]

@Adamq8 Thanks for your input. My first thought was also that they only differ in the words they choose to use. But Frank is not pointing to differences in understanding but in experience. He does not say that any of Leos views are wrong, just that he might not yet have let go of that last bit of identification.

Frank also mentioned that psychedelics no longer have an effect on him. If one gets what that means, it is a remarkable shift. Psychedelic states are on the most fundamental level no different from the sober state. 

[Thought Art]

@Lauritz I think Yang is full of shit, kindly ahah

You are not meditating your way to a 5meodmt trip.

[Tim R]

Oh my god, why all this elitism about "do you even trip, bro?" in the psychedelic community?... Really unpleasant to be honest. 

 

"Oh you haven't done 5-MeO-DMT at least 100 times? Well then you're full of shit and you don't understand the deepest spiritual insights."

What a stupid game, it's embarrassing... 

 

Also, how can people argue about the ineffable?? It never fails to make me chuckle when I see people argue about this attainment or that understanding, and how your insight is still not the deepest insight and on and on and on... 

One-Upmanship at its best ?

[SriSriJustinBieber]

Frank Yang is the real deal as far as I can tell.

[Thought Art]

12 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Oh my god, why all this elitism about "do you even trip, bro?" in the psychedelic community?... Really unpleasant to be honest. 

 

"Oh you haven't done 5-MeO-DMT at least 100 times? Well then you're full of shit and you don't understand the deepest spiritual insights."

What a stupid game, it's embarrassing... 

 

Also, how can people argue about the ineffable?? It never fails to make me chuckle when I see people argue about this attainment or that understanding, and how your insight is still not the deepest insight and on and on and on... 

One-Upmanship at its best ?

No. There are just different states. It's not one vs the other. You simply cannot speak as if you understand psychedelics if you are not experienced. You are not experienced unless you have done at least 100 trips. It's like, being skilled in any field. You must practice.

Don't speak as if you know something when you don't. I don't see it as one-upmanship. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Thought Art

[Adamq8]

35 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Oh my god, why all this elitism about "do you even trip, bro?" in the psychedelic community?... Really unpleasant to be honest. 

 

"Oh you haven't done 5-MeO-DMT at least 100 times? Well then you're full of shit and you don't understand the deepest spiritual insights."

What a stupid game, it's embarrassing... 

 

Also, how can people argue about the ineffable?? It never fails to make me chuckle when I see people argue about this attainment or that understanding, and how your insight is still not the deepest insight and on and on and on... 

One-Upmanship at its best ?

It goes both ways.

There is plenty of meditators and what not that will label psychedelics as mind delusions.

But it clearly shows the lack of experimentation with them.

Truth is truth.

It is like reading 5 pages in a book and then goes on to say that you know exactly what the book is about.

Thats the issue here.

[Thought Art]

@Adamq8 Yeah, I read the first chapter. I think I got it.

[Adamq8]

Just now, Thought Art said:

@Adamq8 Yeah, I read the first chapter. I think I got it.

Exactly and in this case the book is infinite ?

[Thought Art]

@Adamq8 And there is more than one book. Meditation is one, a specific technique of meditation another, and another.

Same with psychedelics.. many different compounds and molecules and states, and insights etc