RSD Madison, thoughts?

[WonderSeeker]

Have any of you done bootcamp with Madison (or any of the other RSD guys)? What were your experiences? I'm seriously considering going to one but don't know what to expect. 

 

[flowboy]

Never seen Madison in real life. Learnt a lot from his videos though. I think he's the real deal.

 

But the only real life RSD event I've done was with RSD Sarah, and it was so bad that it was almost traumatic. She bullies people on stage, and makes them feel so bad about themselves that they get into a really low and insecure mode. And then she uses that to bully them further into her upsell paid seminar. She uses very manipulative and aggressive selling. i was so shocked at the way she treated people, that I started recording it on my phone. I think she's a sadist, to be honest. I actually bought the upsell and it was horrible. She had us make faces on our phone cameras to practice being emotionally expressive. And she did more can't-win-roleplays, where she'd play the girl and you had to be the guy, and nothing you did was ever good. I think she enjoys making guys feel bad about themselves. She's a hack.

Also RSD is known in general for using manipulative and scummy sales techniques on the phone, basically trying to extract as much money as they can. So just be careful.

To summarize: don't just assume that any RSD person is any good, that was my mistake. They employ some real psychos.

Madison impresses me a lot, so I would take a seminar with him if it was available to me, and I were in a pickup phase.

Edited September 15, 2021 by flowboy

[JonasVE12]

Lol, funny story

I went to Budapest for some weeks with a friend last month, and we found out madison was doing a bootcamp there. We then tricked madisons sales man into thinking we wanted to join Madison's bootcamp in Budapest. But actually we just wanted to know where they were going to meet up so we could observe and troll them. An observer spot is like 1.3k so we basically got it for free.

We then went to the meet up location at the start of the bootcamp and acted like we were on the bootcamp lol.

There were like 12 guys in total. Madison and 1 instructor. 10 students. 

Eventually we had to go away but observed them from a distance. The students were just told to approach without too much interaction with the coaches. It was only like 4 hours coaching a day and no nightgame. Madison and the instructor were just walking around and sometimes joining their sets. Some students reported that it's way overpriced and you're not really getting much value. The group energy is good though and it motivates you. There's almost no personal attention. You're better of finding a good wingman. Make friends with people who are also learning game. That's key imo.

We went to the club at night with a student who was on that bootcamp and he also reported that there's not much value in doing the bootcamp. And I can see why. I mean, Madison and the instructor were just walking around in circles wearing their sunglasses, enjoying the 25k they earn from the weekend, while the students were sent off to approach..

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by JonasVE12

[aurum]

@WonderSeeker

I did a bootcamp with Todd. In hindsight, I’d say the bootcamp was really only valuable because I made it valuable. I did an absurd amount of approaches that weekend.

But truthfully, I could have saved myself the 2.5k and done the same thing at home. Todd mostly just had us do our own thing without much attention.

The thing that ultimately really helped me was not doing a bootcamp. It was having good wings / friends, and committing over the course of months / years to going out.

[Roy]

1 hour ago, JonasVE12 said:

And I can see why. I mean, Madison and the instructor were just walking around in circles wearing their sunglasses, enjoying the 25k they earn from the weekend, while the students were sent off to approach..

It's stuff like this that serves as an example of why maybe some form of regulation for certain newer industries would be a good idea. It's hard to think about how it could be done since it's such a dynamic and emerging market, but right now there is really nothing standing in the way of people outrageously charging out of proportion for a product or experience. Of course you expect people to have some street smarts and not fall for obvious scams, but there is always a vague grey line to be toed. Some sort of ethical or practical standards need to be set so desperate people aren't tempted into pissing away their life savings for amateur services.

Additionally there is the problem of the toxic positivity culture around these things that rationalize any criticism away and gaslight the shit out of you saying stuff like, "You weren't trying hard enough." or "You get out of it what you put in." While they laugh to the bank like @JonasVE12 has pointed out here.

I wonder what @Leo Gura thinks of this considering he was involved the sphere for a while.

It's the skeptic in me talking right now, but the whole thing just feels looking at spoiled food where you're looking at it wondering if you should eat it like ehhhhh .

[Leo Gura]

Bootcamps are mostly for people who struggle just doing an approach at all. The bootcamp simply forces you to approach a lot. It doesn't offer much value beyond that.

There is no magic advice or lesson which you can be told which will make you good at approaching. The only way to get good is to do it a lot and fail a lot.

[Tudo]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The only way to get good is to do it a lot and fail a lot.

Best advice by far to get women.

[Bando]

The real question you should be asking yourself is what marketing funnel did you go through to end up giving a guy 2.5k, just to go approach women, which you can do by yourself for free, thats were the real nuggets are

[Jacob Morres]

@flowboy julien is similar. They employ a ton of manipulative sales tactics and their rationalization is that they're trying to help you. So they put you in a really low state and then get you to buy 

I remember on stage julien and Tyler would shame the audience like you guys will never be successful, where do you guys think you're going consider where you're at and then a ton of fear based tactics. Then they'll sell their program at the end like a saving grace to your issues. But it can be damaging for low self esteem issues cuz it can really install disempowering beliefs 

At the end they asked for a show of hands of who is interested in this products and I remember this one dude shot his hand up and the look on his face was like devastating. Like he was really negatively impacted by it. I was like Jesus Christ they're really getting to some people 

Manipulation is crazy. 

That being said, julien also introduced me to David R Hawkins letting go so I'm grateful for that 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

So they put you in a really low state and then get you to buy

That's how the whole self-help industry works, from Tony Robbins downwards.

[mmKay]

@WonderSeeker ive been in his free tour in Barcelona. Seriously disappointed with the talk as I flew 1000 km just to hear his theory on the last generation spoiling the hot girls for us. But the networking is really nice as you meet likeminded people and a good wingman is gold. 

Later that night I was in the same club as him and his bootcamp students and basically he points at girls for you, you approach and then he whispers some feedback in your little momma ear

Definitely don't pay 3k euro for a 3 day bootcamp. Rsd is notorious for upselling themeselves. 

Rather invest some of that money in an escort if you haven't experienced intimacy with a girl as it will loosen you up more than anything, if you are okay with the experience. 

But if you want a terrific experience, go for the 4 week natural Bootcamp. Its about 2k euro for 4 weeks. You basically live with Alex for 4 weeks and the other students and you hit it hard every day.

And he worked with Owen for years but left their company because of their shady business habits. He openly calls himself the most experienced pick up coach in the world. Very genuine and authentic guy. Have a look:

Old but gold. Look at his new stuff and contact for a bootcamp if that's what you want. Good luck ?

Edited September 16, 2021 by mmKay

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, mmKay said:

But if you want a terrific experience, go for the 4 week natural Bootcamp. Its about 2k euro for 4 weeks. You basically live with Alex for 4 weeks and the other students and you hit it hard every day.

Now that sounds like good value for the money.

For a 2k/3k bootcamp I expect some personal attention.

I've seen videos of Tyler coach people infield, that looked dope though. I would have paid for that.

There is something inherently dirty about an industry that profits from people that have been traumatized in some way. I use the word traumatized in a broad manner. I think the helpful products and bootcamps are good and should exist, but it's not ethical to shame people and use their own sense of inferiority to hard-close the sale.

Edited September 16, 2021 by flowboy

[something_else]

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

it's not ethical to shame people and use their own sense of inferiority to hard-close the sale

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's how the whole self-help industry works, from Tony Robbins downwards.

@Leo Gura  @flowboy I had to stop watching the newer RSD videos on YT because of this tactic. I realised most of them were making me feel inferior and basically like total shit

[flowboy]

2 minutes ago, something_else said:

@Leo Gura  @flowboy I had to stop watching the newer RSD videos on YT because of this tactic. I realised most of them were making me feel inferior and basically like total shit

Good for you!

Stop feeling inferior and you don't need pickup techniques anymore.

That's the mindfuck.

 

 

( of course, to heal a sense of inferiority is a journey in and of itself, but it has little to do with pick-up technicalities, and more with healing childhood conditioning and trauma )

Edited September 16, 2021 by flowboy

[something_else]

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

of course, to heal a sense of inferiority is a journey in and of itself, but it has little to do with pick-up technicalities, and more with healing childhood conditioning and trauma

Exactly, I was bullied as a child and that's why I'm pretty anxious socially. The solution to that is not really provided by RSD or any pickup techniques, but I suspect many of their customers/viewers are in a similar situation, which RSD undoubtedly exploit. If you're not especially socially anxious or struggle with insecurity and you just struggle with knowing what to do then I can definitely see the value in something like RSD or any other set of techniques/systems.

I'm naturally really sociable when I can get by the anxiety and I imagine this applies to many many people. My problem isn't knowing how to socialise, it's just learning to let go. And the conclusion that I've come to here is that the solution (for me anyway) is just exposure without placing too many goals or expectations upon yourself. Just go to busy places and see what happens

@flowboy You seem like a super chill guy btw 

[flowboy]

21 minutes ago, something_else said:

Exactly, I was bullied as a child and that's why I'm pretty anxious socially. The solution to that is not really provided by RSD or any pickup techniques, but I suspect many of their customers/viewers are in a similar situation, which RSD undoubtedly exploit. If you're not especially socially anxious or struggle with insecurity and you just struggle with knowing what to do then I can definitely see the value in something like RSD or any other set of techniques/systems.

I'm naturally really sociable when I can get by the anxiety and I imagine this applies to many many people. My problem isn't knowing how to socialise, it's just learning to let go. And the conclusion that I've come to here is that the solution (for me anyway) is just exposure without placing too many goals or expectations upon yourself. Just go to busy places and see what happens

@flowboy You seem like a super chill guy btw 

Exactly my conclusion, after struggling with this stuff for 10 years. Crazy that most people don't know. The pickup marketing is not helping.

Thanks! You too!

 

[WonderSeeker]

Thank you all for the feedback. Your experience and reflection of this industry has clarified a lot of questions/concerns/doubts. @Leo Gura you said you're making a video about "Life Traps/Scams" soon, right? Will self-help industries be a part of this? It seems like there's a lot to be said there.

9 hours ago, something_else said:

I realised most of them were making me feel inferior and basically like total shit

Okay thank you. I really dislike the over-the-top obnoxious attitude that, for instance, Tyler pushes. Sure, he's an amazing human, has an incredible life-story, and is hyper-qualified as a social skills coach, bar none. But damn some aspects of him rub me the wrong way (e.g., the mansion, ramblings about his business, his hyper-stimulated state, etc.). Same thing for some of the other RSD coaches it seems.

 

13 hours ago, mmKay said:

But if you want a terrific experience, go for the 4 week natural Bootcamp. Its about 2k euro for 4 weeks. You basically live with Alex for 4 weeks and the other students and you hit it hard every day.

And he worked with Owen for years but left their company because of their shady business habits. He openly calls himself the most experienced pick up coach in the world. Very genuine and authentic guy. Have a look:

Old but gold. Look at his new stuff and contact for a bootcamp if that's what you want. Good luck ?

Dope, this looks great - thanks.

. . .

Personally, I'm already working with a dating coach but was checking out other sources for the future when my current program ends. The coach I'm working with is Jad T Jones, and his way of facilitating is online (very similar to the video calls @Nahm does, where he points out blindspots). He's a very down-to-earth and trustworthy guy overall. He has somewhat of an obsession over the notion of "success," but besides that he's compassionate and well-balanced. Never talks you down and his coaching is quite personalized.

[flowboy]

11 minutes ago, WonderSeeker said:

his way of facilitating is online (very similar to the video calls @Nahm does, where he points out blindspots). He's a very down-to-earth and trustworthy guy overall.

I heard flowboy also does that

11 minutes ago, WonderSeeker said:

Okay thank you. I really dislike the over-the-top obnoxious attitude that, for instance, Tyler pushes. Sure, he's an amazing human, has an incredible life-story, and is hyper-qualified as a social skills coach, bar none. But damn some aspects of him rub me the wrong way (e.g., the mansion, ramblings about his business, his hyper-stimulated state, etc.). Same thing for some of the other RSD coaches it seems.

In my pickup days I would have loved to be an intern for Tyler, I think. At least that's what I was dreaming about. Following a successful entrepreneur's every move, whilst going out with him and helping him film the videos. Like Max Tornow did. Who runs a business coaching venture now that is under investigation now for unethical practices

I don't know what it is with these guys. They're so good on video, and at what they do, but they can't seem to install a company culture of ethical practice.

Edited September 16, 2021 by flowboy

[PurpleTree]

15 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

That being said, julien also introduced me to David R Hawkins letting go so I'm grateful for that 

me too hihihi

although i'm not sure if the technique is working for me

[Emerald]

Just reading through the thread…

Here’s a bit of a caveat emptor.

If RSD coaches break down your self-esteem to get you to buy… they will likely continue to disempower and give you half-crappy/half-helpful advice because it is lucrative to them.

Playing off of male insecurity is a very profitable business.

You should be cautious because these coaches would lose money if men actually gained confidence and felt better about themselves. Your crippling self-esteem issues and insecurities about your masculinity are their bread and butter.