When you have an insight/vision etc. what makes you accept it as truth?

[PurpleTree]

Surely there can many delusional insights and visions etc.?

[Nahm]

@PurpleTree

You’re imagining there are “insights” & “visions”. By definition this is delusional. 

[JayySur]

You need to take the plunge and see directly for yourself. No one else can do it for you. 

[PurpleTree]

57 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@PurpleTree

You’re imagining there are “insights” & “visions”. By definition this is delusional. 

so when i have an insight of everything is one, all is god it's delusional? 

 

32 minutes ago, JayySur said:

You need to take the plunge and see directly for yourself. No one else can do it for you. 

yea i was talking about myself. but obviously many people have delusional insights themselves.

[Nahm]

10 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

so when i have an insight of everything is one, all is god it's delusional?

Yes. 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

Yes. 

so why even pursue spirituality if everything's a delusion anyway and no real insights to be had?

[Nahm]

@PurpleTree

The Truth. Why else? 

Might be easier than you think (and define ‘things’). 

[Terell Kirby]

Truth isn’t a matter of acceptance. This applies only to belief systems. Truth is not a belief.

You, as God, have all the power to define what is true and what isn’t. The problem is looking for truth outside of your own direct experience.

The forum will not help you with such a question. Find the answers inside of your consciousness.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[Nahm]

@Terell Kirby

 The forum seems helpful. That could’ve went on for ‘years’. 

[Moksha]

From the ultimate perspective, everything in the cosmos is a delusion. However, from the relative perspective, insights and awakenings are real. If everything is Consciousness (and it is), then even the dream forms that Consciousness creates are also real, because they are still Consciousness.

As the same fire assumes different shapes
When it consumes objects differing in shape,
So does the Self take the shape
Of every creature in whom he is present.

- Katha 2.2.8-10

Consciousness assumes the form of everything it creates, and resides within each form. It has the capacity to become aware of its seamless Self, even within that form. That realization is what insights and awakenings are.

[JayySur]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

so why even pursue spirituality if everything's a delusion anyway and no real insights to be had?

Why do anything at all? Why breathe, why wake up, why drink water, etc, etc.

You assume everything’s a delusion. Contemplate that. 

You assume no real insights can be had. Contemplate that also. 

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, JayySur said:

Why do anything at all? Why breathe, why wake up, why drink water, etc, etc.

You assume everything’s a delusion. Contemplate that. 

You assume no real insights can be had. Contemplate that also. 

I don't really assume that, Nahm said that i guess.

I just wonder how we can discern between a truthful insight about us or the universe and somebody who gets the insight that he/she can fly and jumps out of a window etc.

Edited September 15, 2021 by PurpleTree

[Leo Gura]

If you deny the self-evidence of insight then you've undermined every thought you've ever had, including all of science and logic.

Science and logic cannot work without insight. Even skepticism cannot work without insight because you have to believe your skeptical thoughts are valid.

[Seth]

Are insight and faith the same thing?

[Rilles]

There are mental insights and abstractions like "Oh my I just realize I always do this or that" etc. Those can change over time.

But then there are absolute insights or Vipassana insights that dont go away, like realizing that the mind as a "container" doesnt exist, or that awareness is without attributes, these are things you can always go back to check to be true. 

[Moksha]

11 minutes ago, Seth said:

Are insight and faith the same thing?

As I define it, deep insights are truths that arise from Consciousness, while faith may or may not be true.

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

From the ultimate perspective, everything in the cosmos is a delusion. However, from the relative perspective, insights and awakenings are real. If everything is Consciousness (and it is), then even the dream forms that Consciousness creates are also real, because they are still Consciousness.

As the same fire assumes different shapes
When it consumes objects differing in shape,
So does the Self take the shape
Of every creature in whom he is present.

- Katha 2.2.8-10

Consciousness assumes the form of everything it creates, and resides within each form. It has the capacity to become aware of its seamless Self, even within that form. That realization is what insights and awakenings are.

 

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you deny the self-evidence of insight then you've undermined every thought you've ever had, including all of science and logic.

Science and logic cannot work without insight. Even skepticism cannot work without insight because you have to believe your skeptical thoughts are valid.

thanks

 

13 minutes ago, Rilles said:

There are mental insights and abstractions like "Oh my I just realize I always do this or that" etc. Those can change over time.

But then there are absolute insights or Vipassana insights that dont go away, like realizing that the mind as a "container" doesnt exist, or that awareness is without attributes, these are things you can always go back to check to be true. 

how about the "god" and "one-ness" etc. insights though, how do we know those are true?

because they happen often and to many "people"?

for me it only happened once or twice really over two years ago and then i wasn't able to replicate it.

 

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

how about the "god" and "one-ness" etc. insights though, how do we know those are true?

Wont know until I get there, I will tell you then. 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

how about the "god" and "one-ness" etc. insights though, how do we know those are true?

How do you know anything exists?

[PurpleTree]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How do you know anything exists?

for example the store in my city is always there when i go there.

i can go inside, talk to the sales personnel, go on their website

try clothing on etc. it's very stable so i'll assume it exists on this level

i can always replicate that experience at any time basically

 

 

i can almost always go to stillness and replicate that experience

but god realisation i can't really replicate whenever i want

Edited September 15, 2021 by PurpleTree