Logic Nation For Actualization

[Martin123]

@kurt Nobody invited you into this discussion, go tame your narcissism somewhere else. I really beg you to stop following me, it is annoying as fuck. Preach into your toilet not into my pc screen.

[kurt]

6 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@kurt Nobody invited you into this discussion, go tame your narcissism somewhere else. I really beg you to stop following me, it is annoying as fuck. Preach into your toilet not into my pc screen.

Im just saying, paradgims are therapy talk.  And therapy is pluralism, its delusion.  Reality is absolute, non dual.  Let stick to reality and not to little psyochanalytic defense mechanisms you're taught to protect your inner child from acting out.  We need real talk, not regurgitated textbook Heidegger nonsesne.  Its outdated, it served its purpose for a time in the 70's, but these days its getting in the way of any meaningful discussion.

Edited December 12, 2016 by kurt

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Schulzy said:

But why are you comparing human to a sea otter? I don't think people understood the video.
Logic is a word for consistent patterns that bring about our reality.  Because of our neuroscience knowledge we can see how our core value is actually connected to our reward system. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17470919.2016.1257437

All this video is showing, is how to override this core value to logic. So all logical actions you do from then on will actually fire dopamine rush to your brain. People stopped smoking cigaretts in a day after going through this click. And people are more productive than ever.

We can make assumptions that we will never access limits of thought with logic. But chances are, our understanding of objective reality and using logic will allow us to become even more intelligent than ever. Scientific revolution is thanks to us wanting to understand the objective reality. You are aligning yourself with reality with these 4 steps.

Because a human being is an arbitrary thing.

And you are NOT a human being! That's a false identity.

I'm not necessarily saying this "logic method" is bad. It could be useful. There are many useful self-help techniques out there. Probably thousands of them.

But also, they can come with natural limits. Some of those limits can be severe.

My concern is always to guide people to the highest potential I can see for them.

And if you get yourself dogmatically set on a position such as rationality, or logic, or any other modality where THOUGHTS and LANGUAGE are the key mechanism, then that will severely limit you.

But generally-speaking, if a technique is working for you, I say, use it.

Just remember to keep an open mind about other, higher possibilities, so you don't become an ideological adherent to any one position of self-improvement.

The most powerful position, is to have no position. To understand this, see my videos about epistemology:

• https://www.actualized.org/articles/the-ultimate-model-of-human-knowledge
• https://www.actualized.org/articles/grasping-the-illusory-nature-of-thought

The thing with values is, you gotta be very careful not to turn them into dogmas. The concern here is not with the technique per se, but with the way its marketed. That sort of hard marketing tends to create ideologues, which is never a high-consciousness thing. For example, the pickup community suffers from this phenomena. While the techniques are useful, the dogma they come with makes it very prone to abuse. It basically becomes a secular religion.

[Flare]

@Schulzy Your point on our reward system is very interesting! 

But our Spinoza fanboy is doesn't have any point. You can choose @Leo Gura analysis which kinda follows poststructuralism (see Derrida, Lacan etc.) beside being a spiritual theory OR you can just read some philosophy history.  In this case you should know Marquis de Sade. De Sade is often described as the "dark side of kant" (Kant did argue based on complete reason/logic), by lacan, aswell as Horkheimer and Adorno (Adorno actually does say that Kant's thinking lead to WW2) . Sadism as established by De Sade is based on logic. If you're interested in such philosophical topics I highly recommend to look it up.  Just saying being a fan of some "logic" based philosophical theories does not make the world a better place. In fact some philosophers like Alain Badiou actually say that logical ethics are the threats of our modern society.

In addition, the beging of the video is just plain wrong. Reading Nassim Nicholas Talebs "Black Swan", there is no evidence that logic is responsible for progress, more or less it's trying things, that doesn't seem logical that leads to progress. Afterwards we rationalize the process and creating a story about it. Remember the story of Archimedes?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_(word) (which might be the most obvious example)

In a mathematical sense there's no evidence as well. Our concept of logic is mainly based on "Gauß" which in fact, does not give total evidence bc you just need one fact that doesn't support Gauß. The problem is you don't know if any exist. Like Taleb's said in his book; Before we discovered Australia, no one knew that there were black swans on this planet. So everyone thought logical that we only got white swans. The only kinda evidence we can get is though mandelbrots fractal - but is this "logic"? 

Instead of following a fragile principle called logic, which is in fact created by language as Leo said, you should choose core principles. 

Decision based on principles are most likely, more antifragile or at least more robust. You can quit smoking just as fast with principles as your core value as with logic. 

 

Edit: I watched a recent video - this theory is extremely dangerous. He seems so caught up in it, that he just overthrows any empathy and just became ignorant. 

As ignorant as @kurt . Sorry mate I know you wanna make a point, but because of that you're actually the one with the ego. You always gotta consider there are some people you won't be able to "win" with real talk. + thanks for being the one judging what an meaningful conversation is. I'll just pn you every time from now on, if I'm allowed to lead a discussion - If it's meaningful enough.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Flare

[kurt]

5 hours ago, Flare said:

 

As ignorant as @kurt . Sorry mate I know you wanna make a point, but because of that you're actually the one with the ego. You always gotta consider there are some people you won't be able to "win" with real talk. + thanks for being the one judging what an meaningful conversation is. I'll just pn you every time from now on, if I'm allowed to lead a discussion - If it's meaningful enough.

Actually, "ignorance" and the "ego" is just the personal will (uneutralized likes and dislikes).  If you want to pick and choose what sounds good according to your likes and dislikes then by all means be my guest.  Youre not actually getting anywhere by doing so, just merely enforcing your own likes and dislikes and then using "ego" as a weapon against others to keep you deluded.  It doesnt matter how "ignorant" people are, the point is to submit your personal will to the things you dont like, even if you have developed absurd values where others are not allowed to define what is meaningful or not.  The point is, the world is always going to do what its always done, whether you like it or not, and no matter how "delveloped" and "concious" you imagine yourself to be.  So just accept it, because unless you do, you will always be ruled by your delusions.  

Little piece of advice for you there

Edited December 13, 2016 by kurt

[Psychonaut]

Athene is a scammer. If you listen to the guy he talks in circles without ever saying anything of any relevance.

[Flare]

@kurt Here we go. First of all I'm not interested in any kind of understatements or trying to define my "being". Thanks. Maybe read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm. But I actually don't wanna get too personal, since this actually is a forum for self development. 

You're basically following Platon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy_of_the_divided_line) which, in fact, is complete delusion. At least you should consider adopting to the "real" Platon - Socrates, by adopting his mantra: "I know one thing, that I know nothing". Maybe could help for actually calibrating.

Just a quick question, I mean im living in the delusion and I hear about logic etc. . If you wanna scientifically prove where a billiard ball will stop around the 50th push you need every information in the universe for that. After the 7th, you need the gravity of the person standing near the table - not including anything like free will. Now if you wanna tell me you can do good financial decision/whatever based on pure logic - isn't that a  delusion? Exactly because things are as they are. There is a reason people use language and that it has given us such big advantage surviving ancient times. Making things simple is a good thing. Actually the so called "flow state" does require making logic things simpler as they are in order to have amazing performance. 

Wish you the best for getting more positive energy from your spiritual path in the future mate! 

[Martin123]

@Psychonaut he's just kinda desperate to change the world. Who'd blame him right, but he tends to be compulsive about it. It doesn't diminish the validity of his actions though.

[abrakamowse]

 

[Morten]

Why "logic" and why not "lightbulb"?

He seems to use only word "logic" without a definition of it. So why did he choose that word?

Also he sounds too angry and bitter. Which real sage sounded like that? Can you imagine someone following Gandhi if he presented his ideas by fighting with everyone? Shouldn't he just express his way and let people follow him if they like? No need for calling other people on "debates" that will accomplish nothng.

Lastlly he used his girlfriend and comment that "Click" will get you laid or as he put it "turn you into a pussy magnet". So basically your goal is to become 100 times smarter so you can have more sex? Isn't that short sighted?

From his career, my impression is that he is a very competitive person that needs new goals and quests to fulfill. Currently he is doing this but who knows how soon he could change his mind and pursue something else.

[abrakamowse]

He makes me feel that when he says "Logic" he is in fact trying to say "reality"...

 

 

[Schulzy]

Guys, Athene said on livestream that anyone that has argument against the logic nation / clicking can go and talk with him live on livestream.

Basically if you have a good argument you can prove he is wrong while 1000+ people are watching.

All guys ^^ go to https://discordapp.com/invite/NYX25Ab  and message Screening for Debate guy and you can be on livestream tonight debating him.

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Schulzy

[AxelK]

I watched his livestream, the guy has a huge ego and his whole point is trying to win arguments to feed his ego and feel better about himself. Also, his "logic" and his principles seem to change and when he was confronted with what his actual philosophy was he didnt even seem to understand it himself.

Also, he's trying to get people to join his cult so he can feed his god complex even more. The guy is a tool and if he actually has any valid points they are drowned in all the idiocy.

[Schulzy]

Go and message discord guy, you can argue that what is building is just a cult because he has god complex and huge ego. 
There were other people that were already arguing for cult thing but their english was really bad. 

[Martin123]

@Schulzy @AxelK There's no doubt about Athene's insaaaane ego.

But that doesn't take away any value. Take it or leave it.

 

if you are homeless and get bread from a man who gives it to you just to validate his ego, will you not take it?

Edited December 15, 2016 by Martin123

[AxelK]

Not if the bread was covered in feces and spit, which this one is.

[Schulzy]

Well i already said i dont think he has insane ego at all. But i think all these people that are talking negatively but have no balls to actually debate the guy should keep their mouth shut.

If you got arguments against the logic nation you actually have a chance to debate it in front of 1000+ people on livestream. If you are correct people will obviously think you have won the argument.

[Martin123]

@Schulzy Sorry but that's not how arguments work. I can debate my therapist into thinking she's wrong about me only to realize she was right later.

[Emerald]

I'm going to be debating Athene tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it. I don't think he'll concede that I won, no matter what I do. But I think it will be an interesting discussion none-the-less.

[Martin123]

@AxelK What do you mean by that? The bread is perfectly fine. The click should help you out greatly if you're stuck in a rut. 
@Emerald Wilkins Would you share on what basis you're gonna build your argument on? Im super curious how "spiritual enlightenment people" will argue. Because he doesn't operate on that level. He operates on concepts, not direct experiences of reality. (The only thing I'd tell him is that his click is helpful, but you can go deeper with consciousness... much deeper than that, only it requires more effort).