Logic Nation For Actualization

[stevegan928]

https://logicnation.org/

I hear a lot of mixed reviews on this whole "Logic Nation" thing. Everyone seems extremely polarized towards one side or the other, it shows in the comments and on the ratings of the video. Some are talking about how this will change the world and others think it's a crazy cult.

What do y'all actualizers think?  

[Schulzy]

Well, Leo removed recent topic that was going viral, it had 70 replies in few hours. The thread was related to the Athene (guy that made these videos) asking Leo for a debate. So i don't think this forum is going to say so much good stuffs about this.

I can tell you that these videos are the best thing thats has happend to me in my life and i would suggest everyone to check it out.

[stevegan928]

@Schulzy would this program work if someone replaced 'logic' with 'love' or something more universal? or what if someone used it to attain a goal? what if my core value was "becoming enlightened"? i have a reaction against a lot of this stuff but it sure does seem like it's helping a lot of people. would be foolish to just dismiss the whole thing. 

>posted that on the thread you made the other day

[AlwaysBeNice]

It lacks a definition of logic, though it seems like they point to inner connection with the one spirit, albeit they seem to be confused about that themselves, and step 3 is oversimplified and does not create full purification of the self in my experience.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, brovakhiin said:

Logic is universal, that's kinda the whole point of the thing.

Hehe... Tell that to a sea otter.

You're not conscious yet of what language is, that logic is language, and that YOU constructed it!

It would be wise to become conscious of the mechanics of symbolism, before you go around idolizing it.

[Martin123]

@stevegan928 Athene's click is kinda the "CBT" of spirituality. 
Now. In case you don't have a background in counselling =D Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is shown by research to be highly effective, and efficient. It is scientific, and gained on a huge popularity due to its pragmatism. The problem is, it never goes to the root of the problem. It touches issues only on the surface. 
Now the opposite would be something that goes very deep, but takes much longer to take an effect. That would be a humanistic approach towards counseling, perhaps Transpersonal psycho-therapy. It doesn't really get deeper that that in the counseling field. (You could argue that some contemplative models do but that's not important here). 

Athene's click is efficient, scientific and quite quick and pragmatic. vs. Full on spiritual purification - Takes much longer, but goes waay waaaay deeper.

So in the end, it does contribute to humanity in a way, because it's "better than nothing". But if you have a choice between the two... I don't see a reason to go for the click! :-)

 

[Martin123]

@Leo Gura Not to sound nittigritty here, but doesn't a seal otter act "logically"?
I ain't no biologist, but I guess it's driven towards its survival which would seem like the logical choice, since it doesn't have the tools to become more aware of itself and thus gain a holistic understanding.
 

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, brovakhiin said:

Logic is not what man constructed, but what constructed man. It is important to understand that what is meant by logic here is not the study of arguments or something like the classical greek sense, but literally the consistent patterns of our universe and its cause-effect nature that lead, for example,  from the big bang to the formations of planets to the formation of cells to the formation of man.

You're too flippant about that. Without language, you literally wouldn't have "man", "universe", "cause-effect", "patterns", "mind", "science", "thoughts", "big bang", "cells", "evolution", or even a distinction between "self" and "world".

The consequences of realizing what language is cannot be over-emphasized. What you think of right now as given patterns of nature, are actually mostly constructs of language. But it requires some serious consciousness work to realize this.

THERE IS NO SCIENCE OR LOGIC without language.

Try it!

Just 20,000 years ago, science and logic did not exist! Like... AT ALL!

There is nothing universal about science or logic. It's highly human-biased. Useful, yes. But reality stretches way beyond that.

The universe is no more mathematical or logical than it is the slap of a beaver's tail. To appreciate this, one has to become conscious of what a symbol is.

[stevegan928]

@Martin123 that was very useful info. thank you. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Martin123 said:

@Leo Gura Not to sound nittigritty here, but doesn't a seal otter act "logically"?
I ain't no biologist, but I guess it's driven towards its survival which would seem like the logical choice, since it doesn't have the tools to become more aware of itself and thus gain a holistic understanding.
 

It certainly does NOT act logically.

That's your projection on it.

And for that matter, even 99% of YOUR thoughts and actions are not logical. Until someone fed this idea of "logic" into your mind, it didn't exist. You had to learn it. And before you could learn it, someone had to invent it from zero.

Think back to what it was like when you were a baby. You had not notions of logic at all. And it was irrelevant. Your existence didn't depend on it. Only now, you tell yourself (in retrospect, as a story) that logic was important.

[Martin123]

@Leo Gura Damnit. Ur right. lol. Logic is nothing but a label. 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, brovakhiin said:

It follows a line of consistent cause and effect, hence logically. Yes, these are words. But we are talking about understanding the world within the dream, not enlightenment.

Yeah, but this Aristotlean way of linear thinking (cause and effect) gets you into trouble.

Reality is not linear or physical or causal. Even science is starting to acknowledge this boundary with quantum mechanics. You cannot isolate one part or reality from another. I recommend you check out David Bohm's work on this point.

Even if we're not talking about enlightenment, its very important to your effective functioning to realize that what's happening here is you projecting stuff onto otters. Because I can guarantee you're not only projecting onto innocent otters, but many other facets of your life which create much suffering for you.

[Leo Gura]

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with being logical or rational or thinking in terms of probabilities, as long as you're conscious of the limits of thought, and that there is much outside of those limits of thought which you will NEVER access through logic or thought.

So it's all about being flexible enough.

And thought, being mechanical as it is, is not conscious enough to resolve the really deep problems in your life. Which can only be resolved with consciousness.

[Schulzy]

But why are you comparing human to a sea otter? I don't think people understood the video.
Logic is a word for consistent patterns that bring about our reality.  Because of our neuroscience knowledge we can see how our core value is actually connected to our reward system. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17470919.2016.1257437

All this video is showing, is how to override this core value to logic. So all logical actions you do from then on will actually fire dopamine rush to your brain. People stopped smoking cigaretts in a day after going through this click. And people are more productive than ever.

We can make assumptions that we will never access limits of thought with logic. But chances are, our understanding of objective reality and using logic will allow us to become even more intelligent than ever. Scientific revolution is thanks to us wanting to understand the objective reality. You are aligning yourself with reality with these 4 steps.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Schulzy

[DJ]

I didn't watch the video but great discussion!

[JimmySmalls]

There's one big flaw with this that still hasn't been cleared up.

"After making logic your core value you have emotional drive to do what makes most sense, instead of persuing emotional attachments". This itself does not make any sense, because you need context for any action to become logical / 'make sense' (which has been provided, hold up).

So there must be a purpose for action to become logical or illogical in the context of, otherwise its just action. The purpose outlined as innate: "Evolutionary biology shows how our purpose emerges from our drive to evolve". Woaaah there. We do not have a biological drive to evolve. Nothing does. Evolution just happens from random DNA mutations and death/birth.

Purpose is mind made, not based on objectivity. Things just are, we exist as a result of being randomly structured well for existence & things don't exist because they aren't. Simple, no purpose there.

Therefore if no purpose is innate, then no action is logical or illogical innately. For example, what makes solving humanities problems any more logical than worsening humanities problems? helping humanity wouldn't be logical, if you wanted to wipe out humanity and be the lone survivor.

So if after clicking we become emotionally driven towards taking logical action, but no action is logical as a standard, what action are we driven toward exactly?

It sounds great up until this point, but this doesn't make sense.

Edited December 12, 2016 by JimmySmalls

[Martin123]

@JimmySmalls Youre driven towards whats logical based on your paradigm and understanding.
I think Athene is wonderful, as well as his click, nice cool thing to get society out of crisis. Not deep enough for more meaningful development in the long-run.

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Martin123

[JimmySmalls]

@Martin123 Logical for what?

[Martin123]

1 minute ago, JimmySmalls said:

@Martin123 Logical for what?

For your goals, moral values and desires. It is an "ego-centric" paradigm.

[kurt]

@Martin123 Can you stop referring to "paradigms" please.  This is 1970's humanistic talk where everyone had a "paradigm".  Who do you think you are, Albert Camus? Reality is not pluralistic, or relativistic, its absolute.  Lets get out of the 70's yeah?   

Edited December 12, 2016 by kurt