Thoughts on Jewish enlightenment?

[fopylo]

So as part of the camp program, we've been spending like 2 weeks in Zefat and we've been mostly interacting with the Haridis (the extremely religious). It's quite interesting because some of the people who talked to us seemed like they have gained higher consciousness understandings, I'll give you an example of the person we met today who I think is the best example:

So first of all, he is Haridi, the extreme Jew. But he doesn't dress so formal, looks a bit like a hippie. He is very warm and plays music (a harmonica). He was talking to us about "to repent" (or so I think that's what you call it - when an atheist is deciding to become a believer in the Jewish God, from Hebrew translated as "coming to the answer"), and he was explaining that it means coming back to your roots.

At one point he was talking about the nature of yourself and asked "if I'm not my body or my brain (after telling us why it's not the case), then who are we?" I had to take the opportunity and said with a tone of doubt "nothing?" He said "nothing and everything at the same time". The dude seemed to be grasping some non-dual shit. He was then talking about separateness and how oneness is the case. I had to take the opportunity and tried shooting questions like "if there is no separation between you and a radical Muslim, then why at the very root of everything you say that the Jewish God takes place? What makes us special?" (Or something along those lines). Don't exactly remember what he answered me but at some point he talked about the Dao, and that every person has his unique path. He said he studied a lot of Buddhism and many Eastern religions, and I believe him. He is a very loving person and he has a relatively great understanding of stuff compared to some others.

Basically the whole tour was for the Mikveh - I don't know too much about it but from what I understand it's a small pool in a little cave, very freezing cold water, and you dip your whole body 7 times, naked. He explained it has to do with the feeling of a child you get from it, the shock of the cold and the water, as if you're starting life again, clear mind.

I've been in the Mikveh before, but I went today again, together with this guide and 2 others from the camp, and I got this feeling of refreshment, quite similar to the feeling after I do a Shamanic breathing session.

By the way this guy is very chill and uses slang sometimes. You have to know what is a Haridi and how he behaves to understand what I'm saying better. But anyways, it is also common for marriages to be decided by the rabbi (the couple), and this dude met his wife at a freaking party. The guy is understanding perhaps a deeper aspect of religion, and of life - that it's all about freedom, and freeing yourself.

He seemed so open that it's really hard for me to believe that he is forcing on himself this religion, that he is holding on to them so tightly like he's going to die. It was quite enjoyable.

But that left me really curious about Jewdaism and religion. Can such a person like him reach enlightenment? It begs the question of whether you could be enlightened while having a religion.

I'm also curious in general what are your thoughts on what I just said and this person I was talking about.

[Batman]

A person cannot reach Enlightenment, because it is not a matter of relativity or mind. Yes, of course religious practice can set the stage for Enlightenment, if it keeps you honest and open. You think meditation, contemplation, yoga and psychedelics are not the "religion" of spiritual people? If not, think again. The method or the process is relative, and only serve as means for "producing" Consciousness of the Absolute. The means are not the end. Some practice or set of beliefs can open Consciousness from being anchored to mind and perception for one, and not for the other. Because we have different minds and selves, there is no ultimate practice. This is why experimenting with different practices is so crucial. So the road really doesn't matter, as long as it fits the mind in question and empowers the possibility of becoming directly conscious of our True Nature.

I am not informed regarding Judaism, but isn't it believed that Moses had direct consciousness of God? Such a belief may set the stage for other to become conscious, just as (probably) every person in this forum has learned about Enlightenment from an other. So Enlightenment is only belief or hearsay anyway, unless you had the good fortune of surrendering the self without hearing about this possibility from an other.

I will also suggest that if the Enlightenment is deep, than it is probable that the self will drop most if not all of the beliefs or practices, because they will become futile. The nature of Enlightenment is radical in the sense that practice isn't really needed, it is more like placebo pill - you are literally doing something that prepares you to get that there is really nothing to do or think about. This why I doubt of your impression from the guy. It is also possible that he has studied different "ways", so to speak, and has a sharp intellect/mind. If you throw some charisma into the the mix, this is a done deal. But who knows, right? You will just have to find for your self.

That's my take on the matter, hope it contributed in your contemplations.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Batman

[Adamq8]

EIN SOF ?

Tzimtzum 

 

[SriSriJustinBieber]

All religions and philosophies are heavily distorted for various reasons, yet paradoxically contain a pure path that can only be grasped by the pure seeker.

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, fopylo said:

Can such a person like him reach enlightenment?

No one will ever reach enlightenment, because it's already all there is, and nothing will ever happen to anyone as there isn't anyone, and nothing ever happens (only appears to). The seeking for it is like a bandaid on its wild, out of control, full-on-ness. So if there is seeking, the seeking is literally ONLY for exactly what is already appearing to happen!

It's absolutely fucking hilarious! And breathtakingly ordinary. Wild and free.

[PurpleTree]

there's truth in every religion i believe, from egyptian mythology up to something like even scientology.

 

but is it still "jewish" enlightenment when he learned a lot of his ideas from buddhism, daoism and other eastern knowledge, maybe also other non dual teachings like advaita vedanta?

3 hours ago, fopylo said:

Don't exactly remember what he answered me but at some point he talked about the Dao, and that every person has his unique path. He said he studied a lot of Buddhism and many Eastern religions, and I believe him.

 

many christians these days also mix christianity and buddhism etc.

[snowyowl]

I'm not Jewish, but have been learning about Jewish mysticism, Kabbala, Spinoza, pantheism, Hasidism and related topics in the 'Seekers of Unity' YT channel. Really interesting to see the links between Jewish & other types of mysticism at the philosophical level, even though the cultural language varies around the world. 

 https://www.youtube.com/SeekersofUnity 

Edit. Also the Hasidic  Rabbi Yom Tov has a good YT channel, he discusses mystical Judaism and is also great fun, although rather conservative (eg his views on gender identity). 

https://www.youtube.com/RabbiYomTov  

Edited September 14, 2021 by snowyowl

[Breakingthewall]

Maybe that guy was someone interested in spirituality and in 3 months he is no longer a Jew and is on this forum ranting about Jews