Leo is right. State of consciousness is where it's at.

[iboughtleosbooklist]

Gotta remember most of this chat is taking place during the sobre state of consciousness. Therefore it's a waste of time. The sobre state of consciousness is always going to be trash. There's too much ego nattering on in the background. Literally no voice in your head, no problem.

[Tim R]

What are you trying to say?

[Endangered-EGO]

@iboughtleosbooklist That's what I thought when I started drinking every day.

Guess if that solved any problem...

[iboughtleosbooklist]

@Endangered-EGO how bad did it get? What worked instead?

[Consilience]

3 hours ago, iboughtleosbooklist said:

Gotta remember most of this chat is taking place during the sobre state of consciousness. Therefore it's a waste of time. The sobre state of consciousness is always going to be trash. There's too much ego nattering on in the background. Literally no voice in your head, no problem.

I remember when I had this ideology… then I started being conscious of God while sober. ?‍♂️

As long as you cling to states, as long as you setup the duality between ‘this’ is better than ‘that’ you will be in bondage. The ego hates the possibility that all states, all forms of delusion and suffering could somehow be just as perfect an expression of God as the most radical psychedelic trip. There’s nothing to cling to and no goal to achieve. Let that actually sink in.

In terms of the sober state being trash, yeah that’s also just a load of bullshit you’re believing based on unconscious biases. If you do the work with rigorous meditation and have a really solid conceptual framework, your sober state of consciousness can DRAMATICALLY increase, but even this increase is not it. But if you believe the sober state is trash, then it will be trash, as is the tricky nature of self deception and ideology. 

[Thought Art]

State is part of it. There isn't one sober state but many. 

This is a good start, begin to contemplate deeper into the quality of your state. 

It also goes beyond simply your state but your thought database and experience database, nutrition, sleep, posture, breathing etc

For example, my realization of infinite love isn't a state I am always in or would want to be always in.

Yet, I can take that state experience and use it to develop a better baseline state and epistemology that serves me and my community in the long run. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Thought Art

[Shmurda]

@Consilience amen to that!

[The0Self]

This is actually absolute chaos but it appears ordered. And it appears as actually ordered to the person. When it's seen as absolute chaos, there is no boredom or notion of wasting time, as there is no time at all. There is just immediately this big bang that never moves.

And by the way, one of the most surprising things about this is just how chaotic it really is. This is utter freefall. Craziness. The illusion of control hides it. When there's no controller, holy crap. And it's already that way! 

Edited September 14, 2021 by The0Self

[Endangered-EGO]

@iboughtleosbooklist

How bad it got:Constantly contemplating suicide.

Because after a while you realise that this isn't a way out, it's an attempted escape that makes it worse. So you have to go through withdrawal, and find yourself in a worse position compared to before you started drinking.

Substance abuse doesn't have a single positive aspect to it. And it gets really really bad real quick.

[Tim R]

2 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Substance abuse doesn't have a single positive aspect to it. And it gets really really bad real quick.

Yes. Substances promise heaven but deliver hell. Fooled. 

[Endangered-EGO]

@iboughtleosbooklist nothing worked, I'm still fucked up.

If I thought I found the solution I'd not be here in that forum.

Apparently the ego is never going to get what it wants, and it has no choice but to want.

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Yes. Substances promise heaven but deliver hell. Fooled. 

Substance abuse*

Everything has risks. 

Learn to be wise in your systems for living.

@Endangered-EGO Don't give up

Edited September 14, 2021 by Thought Art

[Tim R]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

9 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Yes. Substances promise heaven but deliver hell. Fooled. 

Substance abuse*

Substance abuse is already the hell, not the promise. Alcohol or opiates promise heaven and if you feel like you're in hell, that's what creates the promise in the first place. And then comes the abuse. 

7 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Learn to be wise in your systems for living.

Well that's kinda the problem? if you aren't wise yet, you will get fooled by substances. 

[Thought Art]

@Tim R Just gotta use the right ones properly. It's a field of mastery.

Don't anti substance dogma me.

People can and do use certain substances without abusing them.

That being said, I agree and am wary about using substances because of their ability for abuse. However, science shows most psychedelics are hard to abuse compared to alcohol, tabacco, weed, or opiates. 

You can have good and bad reactions to any drug. Even one you know well I have learned this.

But, I am not anti-psychedelic. I am pro learning to master them like any other area of personal growth.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Thought Art

[Tim R]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Don't anti substance dogma me.

Did I? I'm not anti substance and I know that you're not either? I'm just saying that substance abuse is really fucking difficult to handle. 

We are all fools. And we are all hurt. Some of use more foolish and more hurt than others. That's when things become problematic. 

8 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Just gotta use the right ones properly.

Yeah, easier said than done. 

[Thought Art]

@Tim R Nothing about being a mature balanced person in this age is easy.

It doesn't matter if it's substances, ideas, practices etc a fool will fuck up anything.

But, if you don't try and explore, make mistakes and fail and face yourself and your own stupidity (Which is my daily practice hehe) 

You won't grow. 

I know people who claim to be self actualizers, but all they really do is smoke weed and hangout with their friends. So, they abuse substances and teachings yet claim to be spiritually aware. So... It's foolish.

We need to be honest with ourselves about how we use substances or any practice for that matter and how it is actually affecting our lives.

Be patient, be persistant, increase awareness daily and use self love ahha

Really, you spirituality is not an idealology or set of beliefs or opinons you have. It's, how are you actually? Are you joyful? Loving? OR paranoid and full of fear? etc

Edited September 14, 2021 by Thought Art