Too selfish for God realization

[TheAlchemist]

Yesterday I was having a very intense psychedelic experience after eating a thc edible. Thc/cannabis, especially in edible format is incredibly intense for me nowdays. I do it very rarely, but in moderate to high doses. I can't even see myself consuming it just to chill out anymore, the nature of it has totally changed for me after taking other psychedelics and doing spiritual practices seriously.

So, about an hour after taking it, the intensity just kept ramping up, all kinds of bodily vibrations and rushing thoughts, eventually to the point where I realized this shit is about to get very real and existential. I was watching Leo's guided exercise for realizing you are God video and then contemplating on the topic alone, when it dawned on me. 

To realize God, I need to give up myself, totally and fully! I was struggling with this idea, even as I was telling myself "yes, show me the truth! I am done, I am ready!". It was a very intense moment when I understood that to realize God I would have to be totally ready to give up my current identity forever, to basically thrust myself totally into the "hands" of God. In that moment I couldn't be sure if I could even come back to being "me" if went for it all the way, and it felt extremely real.

I realized how attached I am to this body and to this persona. When I was faced with the possibility of seeing the truth, my bias and my attachment just became crystal clear. I was telling myself stuff like "no please, I want to experience the Love, the God realization, the beauty of life inside this body, this personality, I don't want to give it all up yet!".  It felt like I would need to take the ultimate leap of faith, surrendering myself and any ideas of myself totally, to realize God. I wasn't ready in that moment to give myself up for it fully. 

At least now I know what lies ahead, what it takes to fully realize God.  

I wrote in my journal during the trip: "May I one day have the courage to give up my own will for God's. This is the ultimate act of faith."

 

Questions:

For those of you who have been faced with this choice, did you just give up everything in that moment and surrender yourself totally?

Do you think it's best to just jump "in" next time and let whatever happens happen, is there even any use in trying to make more sense of it and only then going for it?

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by TheAlchemist

[gettoefl]

remember god wants you here not there, he picked you this time place with good clear reason

so work on relinquishing lots of the crap that is holding you back from embodying a more divine state

[Blackhawk]

You don't have any own will.

All will is God's will.

So enlightenment etc. isn't up to you. It's all up to God. There's nothing you can do.

At least that's what I'm currently inclined to believe, I think.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Blackhawk

[PepperBlossoms]

@TheAlchemist When I took s****** and my bf would look at me and kept saying "you" quite a bit, I was wanting to reject it - both his presence and the word "you".

I was wanting to reject him being me.

I was laughing and crying.

I had a CBD gummy and was experiencing others as me but was welcoming it in terms of the beauty of the visualizations as well as the sadness for having hurt others (myself) and replaying the experience of others as me over and over again in my head. (also seeing elephants nose leading to elephants nose and others as a twisting vortex figure in place of self)

I think the higher the dose of the psychedelic and the more one does it, the easier it would be to accept god mode.

You can work on accepting god mode even when not on psycadellics.

Look at the couch you are on and say - that is me.  Look at the screen and letters - that is me.  Look at a dog and say that is me.  Look at the dog's paws and say, wow those are my paws.  Look at a mountain and say wow that is me.  Look at your friends and say, that is me.

Look at pepperblossoms and blackhawk and gettoefl and thealchemist, that is meeee.

When you look at the dog, imagine yourself as the body and the one looking through the eyes.  Notice that you are both of the same thing.  When you call someone on the phone, you are calling yourself.

[PepperBlossoms]

2 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

"no please, I want to experience the Love, the God realization, the beauty of life inside this body, this personality, I don't want to give it all up yet!".  I

You don't have to lose the notion of individual personality.  You can keep that.  The couch isn't going to lose its personality unless you decide to change the couch's personality to something else.

We project personality onto couch just like we project it onto each human body including the one the perspective is from.  Each body projects personality uniquely onto all other bodies.

The thing that sees has a different perspective from all the other things that see. But yet all the things that are seeing are all one thing.

It is an odd rainbow of colors..... in that the colors are different and yet all coexist and define each other.

The seeing from the body will always be seeing from the body as that is what it sees from and it cannot be separated from that.

There is no absolute separation but there are differences.

 

[The0Self]

35 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

So enlightenment etc. isn't up to you. It's all up to God. There's nothing you can do.

There isn't anyone separate from "God" (or whatever you want to call whatever is appearing to happen) to do it.

12 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

When you call someone on the phone, you are calling yourself.

Calling someone on the phone is what is appearing to happen. The difference is complete.

[PepperBlossoms]

2 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

"no please, I want to experience the Love, the God realization, the beauty of life inside this body, this personality, I don't want to give it all up yet!". 

look at your definition of "this body"

love, beauty of life, etc. will still be there but the difference is that there is no body as it doesn't stop.  or rather that the body is infinite, everything.

so the perspective is everything is you instead of: everything is other and you are just the human body.

looking at life from perspective of mirror mirroring the mirror - using the glasses to look at the glasses, self looking at self. self as self.

3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Calling someone on the phone is what is appearing to happen. The difference is complete.

complete and empty; all and nothing; rainbow; infinite; yin yang

the appearances are infinite, colorful, vast, diverse

[Matthew85]

2 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

For those of you who have been faced with this choice, did you just give up everything in that moment and surrender yourself totally?

@TheAlchemist Fear is the greatest trickster and illusion of all. Something that helped me was remembering the fear I felt at other stages of my development ended up being an illusion. You don't lose anything. That is the deception. Your sense of self only expands and becomes more. 

Also, remember to enjoy your human experience. So often in spiritual communities people seem to be in a rush to reach the godhead. You have eternity to get back there, so enjoy the journey. Enjoy the awesomeness of being human. You wanted this unique experience.

[peanutspathtotruth]

2 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

I wrote in my journal during the trip: "May I one day have the courage to give up my own will for God's. This is the ultimate act of faith."

Just beautiful ??

I think you learned very valuable lessons here, very inspiring to read. 

2 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

I wasn't ready in that moment to give myself up for it fully. 

This insight and acceptance alone is so deep and wonderful. It hurts, it hurts so much. But it is the ultimate humility. I have had similar insights, and in a twisted way I was seeing myself as "being in the way", "being a barrier to that which is true and good and full of love". And in a sense, that is true. I partly misinterpreted this into shame and guilt though. And this is the point: finding the humility in seeing that you can be completely honest, devoted and willing - but that ultimately it's not your call. You can only throw yourself into the emptiness as fully as you can. Often, mere physiological reactions just won't make it possible, and these need to be purified first. Give yourself fully, and trust. That's what eventually "helped me" break through. Trust and love. There is no rush ♥️ it's all here ?️

[The0Self]

Knowing is ignorance. They aren’t separate. Neither of them are right nor wrong.

[PepperBlossoms]

36 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

being a barrier to that which is true and good and full of love".

The appearance of truth is an appearance appearing true.  Stuff can appear to be wrong just like it can appear to be right or just appear as appearance. 

It appears to be true until the appearance changes and then what is now "true" appears differently.

Edited September 13, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

Yesterday I was having a very intense psychedelic experience after eating a thc edible. Thc/cannabis, especially in edible format is incredibly intense for me nowdays. I do it very rarely, but in moderate to high doses. I can't even see myself consuming it just to chill out anymore, the nature of it has totally changed for me after taking other psychedelics and doing spiritual practices seriously.

So, about an hour after taking it, the intensity just kept ramping up, all kinds of bodily vibrations and rushing thoughts, eventually to the point where I realized this shit is about to get very real and existential. I was watching Leo's guided exercise for realizing you are God video and then contemplating on the topic alone, when it dawned on me. 

To realize God, I need to give up myself, totally and fully! I was struggling with this idea, even as I was telling myself "yes, show me the truth! I am done, I am ready!". It was a very intense moment when I understood that to realize God I would have to be totally ready to give up my current identity forever, to basically thrust myself totally into the "hands" of God. In that moment I couldn't be sure if I could even come back to being "me" if went for it all the way, and it felt extremely real.

I realized how attached I am to this body and to this persona. When I was faced with the possibility of seeing the truth, my bias and my attachment just became crystal clear. I was telling myself stuff like "no please, I want to experience the Love, the God realization, the beauty of life inside this body, this personality, I don't want to give it all up yet!".  It felt like I would need to take the ultimate leap of faith, surrendering myself and any ideas of myself totally, to realize God. I wasn't ready in that moment to give myself up for it fully. 

At least now I know what lies ahead, what it takes to fully realize God.  

I wrote in my journal during the trip: "May I one day have the courage to give up my own will for God's. This is the ultimate act of faith."

 

Questions:

 

Quote

For those of you who have been faced with this choice, did you just give up everything in that moment and surrender yourself totally?

Didn’t lift a finger, didn’t do anything at all, literally. Simply sat on the cushion like any other morning. But, I never heard any of what you mentioned above, so there was no story about me, God, dying, etc, etc, playing in my mind, which was perfectly empty from the daily meditation. 

Quote

Do you think it's best to just jump "in" next time and let whatever happens happen, is there even any use in trying to make more sense of it and only then going for it?

 

Empty your cup. Try to actually notice none of that stuff is actually happening. It’s literally just thoughts about. Like a narration of a movie. 

Super simple… same ‘answer’ / ‘solution’ every time… just return attention to feeling breathing from the stomach. 

You could turn making a paper airplane into a college course at this rate. 

?

Lighten up and have a laugh… “who exactly am I even talking about which is selfish?!” … “Why am I even thinking that, focusing on that, thinking that way?!?” (And laugh)

That you’re giving up anything is a thought. Meditation is most ideal for thought attachment. 

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

At least now I know what lies ahead, what it takes to fully realize God.  

I wrote in my journal during the trip: "May I one day have the courage to give up my own will for God's. This is the ultimate act of faith."

That's what's appearing to happen there.

Liberation is utterly, way, WAY beyond god realization. It's simply what is appearing to happen for nobody. Already. There's only oneness. The appearance of knowing apparently veils this. There's just all there is -- nothing; boundlessness; eternity. This. There isn't anything beyond nothing being everything, appearing to no one for no reason.

If this is heard... EVEN IF contraction apparently stays active, it can be recognized that there's simply what appears to be. No experience can touch this. Turns out to literally be so infinitely obvious that it's overlooked 

There is nothing to find.

Edited September 13, 2021 by The0Self

[roopepa]

Your belief is something like "I am/have an ego which I need to surrender/let go in order to experience awakening", right?

Believe it or not, this is actually not the case. That is a thought-story. This might sound a bit radical... But it's about the same as Santa Claus. You know how kids believe they need to act nice in order to have their christmas presents?

Have you ever really experienced an ego? Where did this idea of "my ego" come from?

How would your perspective on life and spirituality change if you would see "the ego" as a same kind of baseless belief as "a material universe" or "judgemental god"?

Does your beliefs about "my ego" and "surrendering" make you feel limited, stuck, fearful, not good enough, or does it make you feel limitless, free, inspired, good, pulsing with love and joy?

Which one resonates with God more: limited, stuck, fearful, not good enough, or limitless, free, inspired, good, pulsing with love and joy?

[Incognito]

God realization is a process, it isn't something that you force it to happen. You don't have to surrender anything because your ego has it's functions but you shouldn't identify with it either. God is the Whole, not the ego or the persona, nor their absence.

[TheAlchemist]

9 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

@TheAlchemist

Look at the couch you are on and say - that is me.  Look at the screen and letters - that is me.  Look at a dog and say that is me.  Look at the dog's paws and say, wow those are my paws.  Look at a mountain and say wow that is me.  Look at your friends and say, that is me.

Look at pepperblossoms and blackhawk and gettoefl and thealchemist, that is meeee.

When you look at the dog, imagine yourself as the body and the one looking through the eyes.  Notice that you are both of the same thing.  When you call someone on the phone, you are calling yourself.

Thanks, this is helpful. When I would usually do that I would observe the world and say this is all me, but I still would feel that the conglomeration of sensations that I call my body is at least a bit more "me" than the water bottle on my table. This is very subtle in my mind, but it creates a fantasy for the Ego where it thinks it could become it all, when in reality it would become nothing. Seeing the water bottle on the table to be as much "me" as the hand I am looking at, would require me to give up the story and the specialness I have attributed to the body, it would be just another appearance. But now I see what's preventing me from seeing that is my own story and preference for separation. 

9 hours ago, Matthew85 said:

@TheAlchemist Fear is the greatest trickster and illusion of all. Something that helped me was remembering the fear I felt at other stages of my development ended up being an illusion. You don't lose anything. That is the deception. Your sense of self only expands and becomes more. 

Beautiful 

9 hours ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

You can only throw yourself into the emptiness as fully as you can. Often, mere physiological reactions just won't make it possible, and these need to be purified first. Give yourself fully, and trust. That's what eventually "helped me" break through. Trust and love. There is no rush ♥️ it's all here ?️

Very useful advice, thank you, this will be pasted on top of my trip journal as a quote from peanutspathtotruth

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

Empty your cup. Try to actually notice none of that stuff is actually happening. It’s literally just thoughts about. Like a narration of a movie. 

Super simple… same ‘answer’ / ‘solution’ every time… just return attention to feeling breathing from the stomach. 

You could turn making a paper airplane into a college course at this rate. 

?

Lighten up and have a laugh… “who exactly am I even talking about which is selfish?!” … “Why am I even thinking that, focusing on that, thinking that way?!?” (And laugh)

That you’re giving up anything is a thought. Meditation is most ideal for thought attachment. 

Good point, I am questioning if any of my mental activity in trying to make sense of all this is even useful at all.

8 hours ago, The0Self said:

Liberation is utterly, way, WAY beyond god realization. It's simply what is appearing to happen for nobody. Already. There's only oneness. The appearance of knowing apparently veils this. There's just all there is -- nothing; boundlessness; eternity. This. There isn't anything beyond nothing being everything, appearing to no one for no reason.

If this is heard... EVEN IF contraction apparently stays active, it can be recognized that there's simply what appears to be. No experience can touch this. Turns out to literally be so infinitely obvious that it's overlooked 

There is nothing to find.

Very interesting, I get a sense of this in meditation, and even now I can get a little bit in touch with this. Fear still appears, but from that pov it is just another attempt at apparent contraction, if I can notice it in the way you instruct, it has less power and reality to it.

So this is all there is? This is it? Well what else could there be, this is the realest thing of all. But maybe the apparent other things come to existance as their reality is imagined. With a powerful enough vision, you can make anything happen! You can even create a separate self and a world that seems to be out there!

50 minutes ago, roopepa said:

Your belief is something like "I am/have an ego which I need to surrender/let go in order to experience awakening", right? Yes

Believe it or not, this is actually not the case. That is a thought-story. This might sound a bit radical... But it's about the same as Santa Claus. You know how kids believe they need to act nice in order to have their christmas presents?

Have you ever really experienced an ego? Where did this idea of "my ego" come from?

No, not really, thoughts and sensations are experienced, and there appears to be a conglomeration of them that I think is me. But then again, that is just another sensation/thought, so how could that be my identity. 

How would your perspective on life and spirituality change if you would see "the ego" as a same kind of baseless belief as "a material universe" or "judgemental god"? I can only imagine it, but I imagine there would be zero resistance, flowing with everything. A judgemental God and a material universe are both beliefs I have largely let go of, and letting go of them made me feel less restricted and more open to life. Based on this, letting go of the grand belief even behind those beliefs (me being an ego) would bring even more more peace, love and joy, since there would be less resistance to what is. 

 

50 minutes ago, roopepa said:

Does your beliefs about "my ego" and "surrendering" make you feel limited, stuck, fearful, not good enough, or does it make you feel limitless, free, inspired, good, pulsing with love and joy?

Which one resonates with God more: limited, stuck, fearful, not good enough, or limitless, free, inspired, good, pulsing with love and joy?

When I look at it from the perspective of there being a "me" who is surrendering the "my" ego for the sake of something bigger, it seems terrifying and limiting, like I am losing something very precious. God would definitely resonate more with limitless, free, inspired etc. I notice that I feel good about giving ideas of myself up in moments of deep meditation, it feels natural, expansive, peaceful. But on psychedelics, I can be faced with it all, while still feeling like a limited separate self. So it seems to require a leap of faith, but I assume in that moment of taking the leap there would be peace love and joy, since so much resistance has been given up. 

Great questions to reflect on, thanks. 

[This]

10 hours ago, roopepa said:

Your belief is something like "I am/have an ego which I need to surrender/let go in order to experience awakening", right?

Believe it or not, this is actually not the case. That is a thought-story. This might sound a bit radical... But it's about the same as Santa Claus. You know how kids believe they need to act nice in order to have their christmas presents?

Have you ever really experienced an ego? Where did this idea of "my ego" come from?

I know you didn't ask me, but i didn't even think of there being an "ego" or a "self" before i first heard or read about what Eckhart Tolle seemed to have experienced. And then i made the "self" a thing, something i can get rid of, or see through. Attempting to find the absence of something which isn't there. I also tried to find "nothing", because that sounded like a thing i can find too. Something for me, something i can share with people and people can see it emanating from my aura or whatever after i've found it. Hahahahaha 

[The0Self]

12 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

Very interesting, I get a sense of this in meditation, and even now I can get a little bit in touch with this. Fear still appears, but from that pov it is just another attempt at apparent contraction, if I can notice it in the way you instruct, it has less power and reality to it.

So this is all there is? This is it? Well what else could there be, this is the realest thing of all. But maybe the apparent other things come to existance as their reality is imagined. With a powerful enough vision, you can make anything happen! You can even create a separate self and a world that seems to be out there!

There's only what isn't. But it's appearing to be. Closest I can get to describing this. But it's still so, so far.

And there will never, EVER, be a moment when this is understood. It never happened for me (there isn't one), it just apparently became obvious to no one. It's actually more obvious than obvious -- that's how it hides.

There's simply infinite eternity, which is neither real nor unreal -- that's the freedom; no stakes or meaning or purpose of any kind whatsoever.

Edited September 14, 2021 by The0Self

[roopepa]

1 hour ago, This said:

I know you didn't ask me, but i didn't even think of there being an "ego" or a "self" before i first heard or read about what Eckhart Tolle seemed to have experienced. And then i made the "self" a thing, something i can get rid of, or see through. Attempting to find the absence of something which isn't there. I also tried to find "nothing", because that sounded like a thing i can find too. Something for me, something i can share with people and people can see it emanating from my aura or whatever after i've found it. Hahahahaha 

Yeah ?? I took that "ego vs. enlightenment" or "survival vs. awakening" WAY too far, literally to the point of psychosis and almost suicide. After a bad trip, I spiraled down into delusions like "this life is a test of how selfless/fearless I am and I have to prove my selflessness by literally committing suicide". Even had to spend some time in psychiatric ward.

[Carl-Richard]

On 13.9.2021 at 8:30 PM, TheAlchemist said:

For those of you who have been faced with this choice, did you just give up everything in that moment and surrender yourself totally?

I was given the choice during an university lecture 1.5 years ago, or rather it jumped up behind me and tried to force me into submission, but I kept holding on, really hard. I spent a full year of silently struggling to regain a sense of self, and I'm still on unstable grounds. Basically, the choice you felt you were given and had to turn down in fear, for some it's not just a choice -- it's a reality. What you said, "May I one day have the courage to give up my own will for God's. This is the ultimate act of faith.", resonates with me deeply. This is my quest.