Spiral Stages of all German Parties

[Heinrich Faust]

On 21.9.2021 at 3:31 PM, Godhead said:

why green?

I think, I covered that here:

On 14.9.2021 at 11:19 AM, Heinrich Faust said:

I think you're mainly at stage green, but trapped in some conspiracy theories around climate change and Covid. That corrupts your overall view on these topics, and you rationalise green as blue and vice versa.

[Heinrich Faust]

Here's a nice documentary about the small parties (in German):
https://www.zdf.de/dokumentation/zdfzoom/zoomin-kleine-parteien-junge-waehlerinnen-102.html

[Tim R]

@Husseinisdoingfine Theoretically they could be part of our next government if Scholz (SPD) becomes chancellor and they build a three-part coalition with SPD, Die Grünen and DIE LINKE  (this coalition would be called RRG) 

https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/bundestagswahl-2021/bundestagswahl-2021-koalitionsrechner-welche-parteien-haben-die-chance-auf-die-mehrheit-im-bundestag-/27574912.html

Here, this tool allows you to experiment which coalition might and might not work (depending on the selected institute of survey research). Absolute majority is reached at 300 seats. 

https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1246505/umfrage/prognosen-koalitionen-nach-der-bundestagswahl/#professional

Here is a statistic from 3 days ago that shows how likely each coalition is. 

RRG is actually not that unlikely, wow?? But a Jamaica coalition would be fine too, I guess.

My favorite would be SPD, Die Grünen and FDP. That way you have a fairly progressive and socialist democratic coalition without risking too much collective backlash.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Tim R

[Opo]

@Husseinisdoingfine If you repeat it 10 more times you might convince someone. 

[Heinrich Faust]

I guess, they will build an Ampel coalition of Social Democrats, Greens and Liberals. It's what SPD and Greens are aiming for, and they can "blackmail" FDP to join them by threatening with a left coalition.

[Tim R]

@Heinrich Faust Yeah, either that or Jamaica. See the link I've posted: 

https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1246505/umfrage/prognosen-koalitionen-nach-der-bundestagswahl/#professional

Edited September 24, 2021 by Tim R

[Tim R]

@Husseinisdoingfine Bro you're not even German???

[Opo]

@Husseinisdoingfine I'm sorry for being mean to you. 

I've watched this and now I understand. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/pul6fg/democratic_socialists_of_america_trying_to_pass/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

I'll be more considerate in the future. 

[Heinrich Faust]

22 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

The international proletariat knows no borders.

The "international proletariat" is stage blue.

[supremeyingyang]

@Heinrich Faust

AFD: Blue (Unhealthy)

CSU: Blue

CDU: Blue/Orange

FDP: Orange

SPD: Blue /Green

LINKE: Blue (Unhealthy) /Green (Unhealthy)

Grüne: Green

All others aren't worth mentioning except maybe Volt, which might be something interesting which I would support as a test on local level. I don't know yet.

===========

We need to look beyond the elections to get ahead (while still voting for the most developed of the big parties).

Germany is at a interesting Point. Fundamentally there are two Options for the People to choose from in Elections and in daily life:

1. One can remain passive and be in relative safety, but risk atrophy.

2. One can become more active, get innovative but risk faillure.

The State of the Country comes from 70 Years of playing safe. It's a old Country with old Citizens, which lives in fear of it's own strength (see the 20th Century for reference) and thus chose a long time ago to play the game safe and not to commit to risky strategies. Indeed it's the worst long term strategy to play safe 100% of the time.

I read a Czech named Vaclaf Havel, he said in his Essay 'Power of the Powerless': A high Quality Machine is made of high Quality parts. The Problem in Germany is that we want the high Quality Machine, but are not willing to pay the price:

• Improve ourselves.
• Argue in uncomfortable situations for what we see as Truth
• Change our habits of consumation of goods.
• Helping the people who collect Pfandflaschen in the Streets or the Homeless with Shelter, Connections, Food or Money.
• Give People who work in hospitals or retirement homes just more Money - next time you have to go there (tip)
• Sue corrupt Politicans via forming collective structures that can't be silenced
• ....

There is plenty we can do, without waiting for the state. We have to ask: Is it even reasonable to expect the state to govern everything? I don't argue for a smaller state, but that we solve problems on the lowest possible stage

Bottom Line: W/O our daily Initiative, which is at least currently not very plentyful where I live, politics remains a spectacle like Fußball (Who won the Triell?).

Deutsche meckern lieber, anstatt selbst was zu machen.

Ich werde was ich in meinem direkten Umgeld verändern: An der Arbeit für Innovation einstehen. Armen Geld in die Hand drücken. Anderen helfen besser zu werden. Leute zum meditieren und Yoga bringen..

Edited September 26, 2021 by supremeyingyang

[Godhead]

14 minutes ago, supremeyingyang said:

LINKE: Blue (Unhealthy) /Green (Unhealthy)

Why do you think that?

[supremeyingyang]

@Godhead

Opinion from Interaction with Voters/Activists from the LINKE, starting when it was called PDS.

Basicly I characterise the LINKE as truthful in many points, but incompetent and burdened with dogma. I respect highly that they are the only ones for the little citizens and against corruption. But they remain, I have to say, immature.

[supremeyingyang]

@Godhead
what do you think about my analysis that we all have to perform democracy (so to speak) instead of treating it as a service we get handed top-down

Edited September 26, 2021 by supremeyingyang

[Tim R]

@supremeyingyang Die Linke haben auch ne ganze Menge gesunde stage green Elemente

[Godhead]

1 hour ago, supremeyingyang said:

what do you think about my analysis that we all have to perform democracy (so to speak) instead of treating it as a service we get handed top-down

I wouldn't frame it as, either you "perform good deeds / democratic action / be charitable" or "we wait for the government to do something". 

No matter how much money you give a homeless person, they won't find a job, get into rehab, or find adequate housing without strong social support systems established by government institutions. A lot of homeless people in bigger cities make 200€+ a day to fuel their drug addiction, more money won't solve their problem. 

No matter how much you help people become better, it can't substitute for a good education. 

The government plays an extremely important role in our lives. We just don't notice it because it works so seamlessly well.

Personal responsibility is great and important, but if you are born into a shitty situation, and grew up under shitty circumstances, it's unfair to say  "just work on yourself bro"

[Tim R]

@Godhead I think @supremeyingyang meant rather something like "democracy isn't to be taken for granted, but Germans do just that." 

Quote

Bottom Line: W/O our daily Initiative, which is at least currently not very plentyful where I live, politics remains a spectacle like Fußball (Who won the Triell?).

Deutsche meckern lieber, anstatt selbst was zu machen.

I agree. Germans are very complacent. I'm not sure yet why this is. Is it because we have it so good? Or is it something in our political history? I don't know... 

[supremeyingyang]

48 minutes ago, Godhead said:

Personal responsibility is great and important, but if you are born into a shitty situation, and grew up under shitty circumstances, it's unfair to say  "just work on yourself bro"

True, we have to help our fellow humans. Both is needed: Work on yourself and support. Granted: A homeless person needs much support for years until they are at a point where they can work on themselves.

So helping others and do what one think is right in everyday life is more than a sidedish to politics. Both need the same recognition

Edited September 26, 2021 by supremeyingyang

[supremeyingyang]

57 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@Godhead I think @supremeyingyang meant rather something like "democracy isn't to be taken for granted, but Germans do just that."

Straight like that.

57 minutes ago, Tim R said:

I agree. Germans are very complacent. I'm not sure yet why this is. Is it because we have it so good? Or is it something in our political history? I don't know... 

The whole Design of the State-System discourages Participation.

Example: Try to call your local state bureau to tell them about a problem, say everyone agrees that more trash cans at the park are needed. Otherwise people throw trash everywhere and destroy the place.

So you want to change something. You are happy to participate and you call the local state bureau.

• Will they be interested in your case? Most likely no
• Will they be friendly? Most likely not really
• Will they take you seriously? Most likely no
• Will they do something? Most likely nothing that solves the problem

It will be a major problem to implement a simply trash can at the park, which would lead you through several stages of the hierarchy of the bureau. It would take months. MONTHS! HELLO? WE TALKING ABOUT A TRASH CAN!!!!

=> By the way, I did this. The  Person said it would cost 8000€ to install and empty a trash can. Can you believe it?

=> However... What is to be learned from that experience of mine? I don't know what they may want us to learn from it and don't expect bad intention... but it makes you feel bad. You will dodge calling there and thus don't make a difference.

It's Design is like those ofCall Centers, they make it so bad calling there, so that less people call and costs go down. Damn.

Edited September 26, 2021 by supremeyingyang

[Tim R]

@supremeyingyang But that's just a problem of German bureaucracy...  God damn bro where do you live? Maybe it's just your city? just kidding of course. Although, who knows - who sits in the government of your Landkreis? If it's for example Die Grünen I guess it wouldn't be such a problem

[supremeyingyang]

@Tim R

It is not 'just' Bureaucracy, because  Bureaucracy touches every other aspect of our life. Which is influenced over time by... politics.

Green+SPD, pal.

Edited September 26, 2021 by supremeyingyang