Spiral Stages of all German Parties

[ValiantSalvatore]

Fuck man I love Wilber .

Volt looks pretty good. What about the Freie Wähler ? They seem like a stage orange shadow outlet for older people. With some healthy blue as well as with some green ideas, futurism. Everything that is stage blue idealogical (unhealthy) is scary as hell. Seeing Frau Weidel dancing in the Bundestag is one of the most funniest stage blue role playing agendas I have seen. The windmills are the cause of all evil ! (Red shadow) Imagine we would be americans. This would be so genius. 

I've read the election program of the Greens/SPD/Volt/Freie Wähler/CDU.

Never thought there is a somewhat yellow party ? I don't fully grasp what is considered yellow as a truely multi-systemic approach. I like it that they are interested in LL, UL, LR in case this makes sense from integral theory. I don't know what approach they have for a UR and if this is even possible they definitely seem more inclusive than Greens. I dislike this sort of upptity stance of in-group green bias there are also some yellow thinkers in the party obviously. As well as I fear they could be to lenient. 

My top 3 results from the Wahl-O-Mat are

• Demokratie in Bewegung 
• Grüne
• V-Partei³ 

I like it that the Green party is at least has the balls to change legislature even in their election program as well as they are very transparent. I watched this fully.
 

It's interesting to observe the spiral stages as well as the Bundestag itself. 

[Windappreciator]

@Heinrich Faust

"Der Sozialismus ist die Zusammenfassung der fortgeschrittensten Ideen und Errungenschaften der Menschheit. Er ist kein ausgedachtes Schema und schon gar keine Gleichmacherei, sondern erwächst aus dem vielfältigen Leben und Kampf der Massen. Er ist der nächste notwendige gesellschaftliche Schritt vorwärts, in dem der revolutionäre Fortschritt der Produktivkräfte zum Nutzen der ganzen Gesellschaft in Einheit mit der Natur angewandt wird."

This is not a stage blue statement. Quote from MLPD.

 

DiB is not very green if it lacks veganism, which is presented in Die Grünen for example. From the little I have seen it seems they have a strong focus on humans.

 

The heads of DIE PARTEI make green politics. I wouldn't take their satire for face value. 

And actually if you look closely you will see that their satire targets stage orange.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Heinrich Faust]

29 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

I dislike this sort of upptity stance of in-group green bias there are also some yellow thinkers in the party obviously.

Could you give some names? Or are you referring to members?

37 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

What about the Freie Wähler ?

About the same stage as CDU.

 

35 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

This is not a stage blue statement.

That is a bloody blue statement. And, this is by far not their worst statement. You can pick any random sentence of their programme - it's all about fight and revolution, us vs. them.
"Die Arbeiterklasse muss nach dem Sturz der Diktatur des internationalen Finanzkapitals und der Eroberung der Staatsmacht in den einzelnen Ländern die Diktatur des Proletariats errichten und die Produktionsmittel in gemeinsames Eigentum des gesamten werktätigen Volkes überführen."

46 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

DiB is not very green if it lacks veganism

Uhm, so, what about the MLPD? Not a single word about animals, just about humans. And not about all humans, just about the "proletariate". Everybody else can go to hell... or to Gulag.

And yes, you can be stage green without being vegan. And, you can very well be stage yellow without being vegan.

53 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

The heads of DIE PARTEI make green politics. I wouldn't take their satire for face value. 

And actually if you look closely you will see that their satire targets stage orange.

They are mainly green. They fight orange with orange weapons. And they spoof green as well (e.g. "Faulenquote"). But just attacking orange and green, doesn't make them yellow. They are green intellectuals, feeling superior, and making fun of lower stages, without even providing proper solutions themselves. It's an unserious protest party, unable to solve any problems.

[roopepa]

On 13.9.2021 at 3:01 PM, Heinrich Faust said:

There are two green parties which might be appealing to some folks on this forum: the "spiritual" party Menschliche Welt and the alternative medicine party die Basis. Both are very good examples of stage green going bonkers, like falling for conspiracy theories and so forth.

In Finland, we got Kristallipuolue (Crystal Party )

Pretty much the basic new-age-qanon-evil media-stuff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Party

Edited September 18, 2021 by roopepa

[Windappreciator]

@Heinrich Faust

I don't think this will lead anywhere

It's perceptional difference we have not understanding.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Windappreciator

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Heinrich Faust

No, I can't effectively I talked to someone in a party who understands politics a bit more critically than me, so more to members who are working in the background and are interesterd in reforming. So I am being educated mostly. When I bring up integral stuff the person mostly agrees. Yet, there is no "real moderate" approach currently the morality line is quite green all are equal all lives are equal etc in most parties as well as there will be a bunch of emotional line shadow coming from academia. This is where I think mostly and I am going to be highly biased(also based on experiene) here LGBTQIA+ are more open about this  I'd have to watch politics more, yet it really triggers some shadows especially red which I find is often also quite active in the far-left/leftist members. One reason why volt seemed interesting because this is about creativity.... and creating culture not hedonic decadence as well as proper sort of yellow understanding of building interests that are tailored to an individual from a multi-systemic point of view... More eudaimonia.

I'd have to observe members more fully and research them in order to find a larger picture. Just please no Marx, I don't know how often that guy was misunderstood like how it was in Cambodia and Paul Pots. I don't know how you can concot such ideas lol. Reading a bit about anarchy gave me some good ideas why a local to global approach is not going to work. As well as going to Muesums etc. (Bolechevists etc.)

Also, I do think that besides going into policy that the Green we have is quiet healthy and not the "meme" U.S Green so a proper LL dialouge can happen. As long as there are rules and there is mutual understanding, unfortunately you can't skip stages. Yet, according to research from and I gurantee I will not be able to find this is mostly from audiobooks and books from Wilber. You can't skip stages so a healthy and proper green with healthy and proper blue and some more healthy orange would help Germany a lot. Nothing new yet Baden-Wuerttemberg seems to be doing very well as a state and is a Black/Green state. Also, it's orange seems super healthy not like here in Rhineland-Platinate. 

I use the term moderate in the sense of sharing ressources so there is enough for everyone to build their own interests. At best without fluff and a focus on functionality without erudite behaviour.

Also the LINGO bias is very strong. You can be a stage red nazi morally and have stage turqouise lingo. The line is independent of what constitutes to full-blown stage yellow (teal). Which is mostly IIRC cognitive, emotional and moral. ROT and the audiobook Kosmic Consciouness does have some infos. 

I don't know I can't follow an individual it triggers my american bias of going on a man hunt lol. I can't really name members. Many are cognitively yellow, yet looking at policies Volt looks promising as well as some stuff of the Greens, I don't know what effectively is feasable. On a global scale, because I lack the exptertise there. 

Unsure if this is prolific in any sense of understanding, yet thank you for sharing the info on volt ! Really am in favour of this party now, most of the other stuff is so long-established there is no growth and constant fighting not a proper dialog. Also I am very tired of veganism and vegterianism being of high moral value. ("Pride")

I would ask you what are for instance policies that are more stage yellow/teal ? 

I mean especially many will go crazy over this in western countries...
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolschewismus

"Durch diesen voluntaristischen Ansatz, wonach die Revolution durch das Planen und Handeln der revolutionären Elite herbeigeführt werden müsse, unterscheidet sich der Bolschewismus vom Denken Marx’, der deterministisch ein beinahe naturnotwendiges Eintreten der Revolution bei entsprechender Entwicklung der Produktionsverhältnisse vorausgesagt hatte.[3]"

Most of this is just stage blue focus. Production means are mostly manipulated by lower classes, because of a lack of proper social mobility. This is why I think a healthy green is more appropriate without having studied this in depth. Ideally with some Yellow laws !

[Windappreciator]

@ValiantSalvatore @ValiantSalvatore

Can you explain what yellow laws are?

Veganism is a solid stage Green position and a solution to a lot of big problems.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Windappreciator No.

[Windappreciator]

@ValiantSalvatore @ValiantSalvatore

Lol

[Heinrich Faust]

1 hour ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

what are for instance policies that are more stage yellow/teal ? 

I don't have enough understanding of stage teal, so I will limit my answer to stage yellow.

Yellow means evolving into yellow, not forcing into yellow. Germany is currently consolidating at stage green; there is still much orange left to evolve into green, and the society is far too orange to evolve into yellow yet. So, currently, yellow laws basically look like pragmatic green laws. In my opinion, the difference between green and yellow is the consciousness behind the laws. Let's compare:

• Green views itself as absolute truth, whereas Yellow views itself as relative truth. In a high blue country, Green would still craft green policies; Yellow would support orange policies.
• Green easily becomes dogmatic, whereas Yellow always keeps a pragmatic approach.
• Green is more likely to lack a proper evolution, e.g. Die Linke, which kind of skipped stage orange. This backfires in the form of insufficient economic and foreign policies.
• Green fights against Orange and Blue. Yellow tries to integrate all stages.
• Green only can solve problems caused by Orange. Yellow can also solve problems caused by Red, Blue, and Green. This is particularly useful in policy of integration.
• Green is bound to lose focus, and to waste resources on minor problems. Yellow is better at seeing the big picture.
• Green will become conservative when it's time to move on into yellow.
   

2 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

"Durch diesen voluntaristischen Ansatz, wonach die Revolution durch das Planen und Handeln der revolutionären Elite herbeigeführt werden müsse, unterscheidet sich der Bolschewismus vom Denken Marx’

Fun fact: Karl Marx is stage orange.

[Heinrich Faust]

3 hours ago, roopepa said:

In Finland, we got Kristallipuolue (Crystal Party )

Pretty much the basic new-age-qanon-evil media-stuff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Party

Yes, it's another prime example of stage green in a deluded form. And they seem to be also guilty of another issue of the far-left, which I started to discuss in the corresponding thread I linked in the opening post: Subtle flirting with stage blue.
Since I can't read Finnish, I'll quote from their Swedish page: https://www.kristallipuolue.fi/svenska-teser/

• "Finland bör återerövra sin självbestämmanderätt gällande sin ekonomiska poltik och övrig lagstiftning. Detta eftersom det är Finland som bäst känner till resurserna och behoven i det egna landet."
• "Beslutsrätten över invandringen bör finnas i Finland. Syftet bör vara att upprätthålla lag och ordning i samhället, hjälpa människor i nöd och befrämja möjligheter till återvändande till respektive hemländer."
• "YLE måste dela neutral information ur olika synvinklar från både öst och väst."

I'm not saying, they actually do promote blue ideas. I'm just saying, that there are subtle points of commonality. And all these points are stemming from conspiracy theories or a general aversion against stage orange.

[roopepa]

@Heinrich Faust 

Yes, I've noticed the same thing. For me, it seems like these types are not really yet solid Green. They have some Green ideals, but they are in a sense quite childish and not really thought through. It's like they confuse Green ideals with Turquoise.

I often see that they use certain Green perspectives just to hold onto their beliefs. It is very common to hear "This is my truth. You got your own truth, and we are equal." They don't really think that deeply, they just say it when they feel threatened. That's one of the dysfunctional characteristics of stage Green in general, but in my experience it's most apparent in new-age circles.

They often mask themselves as selfless, spiritual, holistic, conscious etc. Yet, you often see quite rigid beliefs about morality, individuality, freedom, democracy etc. They are not yet done with Blue & Orange. I often get a feeling that these new-age types are in fact more dysfunctional and imbalanced than they would like others to see. They might be hiding certain problems behind their beliefs.

But not all of them! Some new-agers are truly solid and healthy Green. I love 'em. They are often far less political and rigid with their beliefs.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Heinrich Faust

I like all of the points above consciouness of the entire spiral is unfortunately unavailable in most people. Mostly the information elite and I am unsure who is that in Ger. Even if europe generally is above the U.S in terms of stages.

Teal is yellow+ !

I know about Marx that he wanted to abolish all classes and saw the production means as the main instrument of class division and to give the workers more "capital" in the sense of giving them more access to the production goods. I can sort of see this as a stage orange as well as an green ideal to stop class division. Yet, self-actualizion is not there lol. As a core desire.

The bigger picture I feel is Germany's sort of orange success based shadow and it's desire to hord ressources houses,cars,luxurious brands etc. Instead of proper strategic investment and creating opportunities for others to be successful too. They see hoarding as an absolute and survival is instantly threatend here. (Bias)

Also, sort of this orange/Green as well as Green/orange consensus of wanting to be recognized as well as having success and enjoying personal freedom. Not caring for instance of the repercussions of consuming,  supporting toxic companies and in general to much consensus of everything. Instead of admitting ones interests, few do that.

An overall approach that leads people to self-actualizion is missing. As well as ressources invested into that.

Fortunately Green is the stage where sprituality is accepted and more experience and being multi-cultural is accepted. I don't know why lol but I have seen more swedes in Germany now than before unsure if this is a sign for solid green. As SD already puts Germany as green without getting into details.

IIRC Switzerland is supposed to be yellow.

[Heinrich Faust]

1 hour ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

Even if europe generally is above the U.S in terms of stages.

Northern and Western Europe is. Southern Europe is at around the same stage, and the Eastern part is below the US. So, yes, the EU is slightly above the US. Including the Non-EU-countries, it's about equal. (And including Russia, it's below, of course.)

 

1 hour ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

Switzerland is supposed to be yellow.

If I compare Switzerland, Germany and Sweden (I lived in all three of them), I can tell, that Sweden is by far the most developed one, and still not at stage yellow. Switzerland (I'm just talking about German Switzerland, because I don't know enough about Welsh Switzerland) is about the same stage as Germany, maybe slightly above, but there are also areas in which Switzerland is more orange or even blue. It's hard to compare, though, because these two countries are very similar, and Germany is too heterogeneous.

[Windappreciator]

Green has ripe emotionality and morality.

To understand Green you must understand it on an emotional level.

Yellow won't stand for blue to be homophobic because it feels like it needs to integrate blue.

Because lower stages are integrated.

Im that sense yellow uses Green's emotional and moral ripeness to system forming as a whole.

What yellow may do however is allow for a non dominant subculture to express its dark aspects.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Windappreciator]

What you guys don't see it what even you Oranges will benefit under Green.

This whole what is a Yellow society is an Orange ego cry for avoiding self development into Green that started with putting itself on Yellow falsely.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Heinrich Faust That is interesting I wonder why the authors of SD placed the countries so high on the index usually at 10% there is a tipping point for the society and lower stages adopt the values of the higher, yet the exercise them at their level. So, I don't fully know if 10% of the information elite is at yellow the country could already have some yellow hotspots as well as have adopted yellow values. I've never been to either of the two countries, so I don't know much about them. Most likely it is a positive guestimate. Anyway looking forward to the results of the votes ! 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Windappreciator It's hardcore in-group bias healthy green is good. The unhealthy nihilistic meme green is not very healthy. Also, judging people on the forum and calling them Oranges is not very healthy. In case you are interested in talking about details a dialoug is an option. I don't think debates will work lol. 

I don't think anyone has anything against Green bro. The main issue I see with green is what you post above it's to relativistic, to lenient, blind to differnces, everyone is equal which is from a bigger picture of yellow as well as meta-perspective to shallow. There are key principles to yellow thinking without making this an academic subject. 

• Everyone is right (non-exclusion)
• Some are more right than others (enfoldment)
• If you want to do this do that (enactment)

There are sure ways as how to get to yellow. So, in case you are interested in that you can practice it. I've done it for the recommended amount of time and I am quiet happy where I am at. It hurts more bothers less to be at higher stages. Yellow can build castles in the air and become impracticle and lost in theory as well as aborted self-actualizations are for instance yellow shadows. 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by ValiantSalvatore

[Godhead]

On 13.9.2021 at 11:54 PM, BadHippie said:

AFD - Blue/Orange/Green/Yellow - probably the most diverse party there is, even if there is

Lmaooo, why green?

[Opo]

Why does the SPD want speed limits on autobahn? 

I thought it was cool to be able to go brrm.