Spiral Stages of all German Parties

[supremeyingyang]

...and it was indeed voted for 'Weiter so'. I'm puzzled. What else would have to happen to make people change their minds?

Let's see which flavor of 'Weiter so' will get into office.

Edited September 26, 2021 by supremeyingyang

[Tim R]

@supremeyingyang Naja, "weiter so" is hopefully not going to happen. Depends on how stubborn Lindner is, because the Ampel Koalition is quite reasonable at the moment. I would be so happy the see CDU/CSU in the opposition. Germany needs a change. 

[supremeyingyang]

@Tim R

You can be right. However, this result shows to me that more than half of the Voters aren't commited to change.

That's bad.

It would better with Green in Parliament, no Question. But fundamentally there is still no interest in Proactive Change (Brave, Innovation, Inner Growth) . So we'll mostly travel on the route of forced change (Fearful, to protect us).

I can only refer to Vaclaf Havel and his claim that a healthy society needs strong people and thus strong groups.

Edited September 27, 2021 by supremeyingyang

[supremeyingyang]

However, we have to make the best out of it! There is now room via protest, social media and talking about the importance of the coming Koalition with People.

Das darf uns nicht so egal sein wie zu vieles schon viel zu lange. Und die typische Antwort: 'Na, was soll man machen?' - eine hohle Phrase um danach die Verantwortung abzugeben.

[Gregory1]

On 14.9.2021 at 8:39 AM, BadHippie said:

Yeah I noticed we have a completely different approach / perspective on Stage Blue. For me a lot of people who are fighting against climate change (friends of mine who go to these FFF-Demos and stuff) are doing it out of a strong dogma and subscription to a belief-system. Which is stage Blue to me. 

@BadHippie you should study spiral dynamics and watch Leos episodes on it. We're not using the same vocabulary here. The stages correspond to a subset of values. Until stage yellow basically all stages are ideological to some degree, stage green as well. Believing in saving the whales and saving the planet out of ideological reasons is not stage blue. It's a low version of stage green.

AFD is completely dogmatic and disconnected from reality. All they care about is winning the power game, they are more like red/blue. 

"Die Gruenen" is more like green/orange than green/blue. 

"Linke" : Green/low Yellow (slight yellow because their ideas and views on society make most sense from a holistic perspective, although many people there are ideological of course) 

"Die PARTEI" : green/yellow not green/orange. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Gregory1

[Tim R]

@supremeyingyang True, and guess why so many people aren't interested in serious change? Simply because we have so many old people, who out of habit chose CDU/CSU. 

But to be fair, I am kinda proud that so many people decided against the Union. Groko just doesn't work anymore, people are sick of it. And the whole frustration that has built up since the pandemic is reflected in the results. And young people crave political change more than anything. 

Lindner darf jetzt nicht wieder so ein Theater abziehen wie vor 4 Jahren, "lieber nicht als schlecht regieren". Und ich glaube die FDP weiß, dass die Union so langsam am Ende ist. 

Wie du schon sagst, wir können nicht mehr so weiter machen wie bisher. 

Germany is a societal and ecological construction site. There's so much to do and we have to act quick. Like really quick and all this whining about "die Grünen sind eine Verbotspartei" is exactly the kind of attitude that will keep us stuck.

Have you noticed how much Laschet is denying the fact that it's over for him? He's clinging so much. In the Berliner Runde yesterday he didn't even want to consider what it would look like if he had to be in the Opposition?

An I'm quite happy that the Linke just barely managed to get in, even though R2G didn't work out. 

[Guest EmptyVase]

It's so funny how quickly these politicians show their true colors, once they talk to children and have to simplify their language. Beating around the bush, in a political fashion, is just a pain in the ass.

And don't forget kids, rauchen is' okay wenn's nicht auf Lunge ist.

 

[Tim R]

55 minutes ago, EmptyVase said:

And don't forget kids, rauchen is' okay wenn's nicht auf Lunge ist. 

Haha?? Vorbildfunktion erfüllt?? 

[supremeyingyang]

2 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

It's so funny how quickly these politicians show their true colors, once they talk to children and have to simplify their language. Beating around the bush, in a political fashion, is just a pain in the ass.

It's a general problem, we all are guilty of. We all can strieve to talk more simply. Thats my takeaway.

But yasss, they are especially weak Candidates, that's for sure.

2 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

And don't forget kids, rauchen is' okay wenn's nicht auf Lunge ist.

Word

[Heinrich Faust]

On 27.9.2021 at 0:39 PM, Gregory1 said:

"Die Gruenen" is more like green/orange

What do you think is orange about them?

On 27.9.2021 at 0:39 PM, Gregory1 said:

"Linke" : Green/low Yellow (slight yellow because their ideas and views on society make most sense from a holistic perspective, although many people there are ideological of course)

To me, they seem dogmatic and myopic, especially their foreign policies. E.g., what's their concept to prevent Putin from invading Eastern Europe? Or, what's their concept to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons and bomb Israel? I just can't see any yellow whatsoever. In fact, they still have a too blue base.

On 27.9.2021 at 0:39 PM, Gregory1 said:

"Die PARTEI" : green/yellow not green/orange.

Well, that could actually be, but if that would be the case, it would be the sleaziest yellow possible: just poking fun at lower stages, without providing any solutions at all.

[supremeyingyang]

1 hour ago, Heinrich Faust said:

What do you think is orange about them?

The attempts to appeal to below green folks is very orange in my book. Take the shameful Volkslied Video..
'We need to project that an Image to get bigger' - and so sloppily executed... what is that other than Orange, an aping of Yellow.

 

 

[BadHippie]

Quote

@BadHippie you should study spiral dynamics and watch Leos episodes on it. We're not using the same vocabulary here. The stages correspond to a subset of values. Until stage yellow basically all stages are ideological to some degree, stage green as well. Believing in saving the whales and saving the planet out of ideological reasons is not stage blue. It's a low version of stage green.

AFD is completely dogmatic and disconnected from reality. All they care about is winning the power game, they are more like red/blue. 

"Die Gruenen" is more like green/orange than green/blue. 

"Linke" : Green/low Yellow (slight yellow because their ideas and views on society make most sense from a holistic perspective, although many people there are ideological of course) 

"Die PARTEI" : green/yellow not green/orange. 

 

@Gregory1
Lmao I watched all the videos about it, even made notes on all of those.

That´s the thing with Spiral Dynamics, it´s a model and based on your own facts you can have a different interpretation. 

The reason I think the AFD is further up the Spiral than most of you is because they have some Stage Yellow thinkers (at least in my opinion). Also they actually talk about systematic change, not just content. 

And about the other parties I am too lazy to answer all of this. Maybe I am wrong about some of them, but it´s still just a model not reality.

Try looking at the parties from my point of view. Not buying into the Mainstream-COVID-19 narrative and suddenly the whole world looks different to you. Maybe you will understand me more

[supremeyingyang]

1 hour ago, BadHippie said:

The reason I think the AFD is further up the Spiral than most of you is because they have some Stage Yellow thinkers (at least in my opinion). Also they actually talk about systematic change, not just content.

These 'Yellow Thinkers' are  to me mere Critics, not System Thinkers. Yes, I heard sometimed valueable critique from some AFD MDB. But how is that an Indicator of Yellow? And even if it were one - what about the great majority of AFDlers who are certainly not even Orange?

Edited October 2, 2021 by supremeyingyang

[Heinrich Faust]

Nobel laureate in economics claims, a stage orange finance minister would be disastrous for Germany, Europe and the world:

https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2021-10/christian-lindner-finance-minister-traffic-light-coalition-koalition-critics-englisch/komplettansicht

[supremeyingyang]

@Heinrich Faust

i see where this is coming from.. Lindner as Digital Minister would be effective and progressive, but as finance minister it would be only more of the same old style...

where is the discussion right now?

Edited October 29, 2021 by supremeyingyang