Realizing that the Brain Doesn't Exist

[ZenSwift]

Hey guys, I'm looking for some pointers that would help me with my investigations in realizing that the Brain Doesn't exist. Which I think is just basically riding the materialist paradigm. 

 

What questions could I contemplate? 

What books should I read? [I've purchased Leo's booklist btw, I'll probably read the book on materialism  ] 

Maybe I should contemplate certain things on a certain psychedelic? 

Additional resources? 

 

Really would like to shake this one loose. 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

Psychedelics are really necessary here.

But shy of that, just look at your direct experience. What is "the brain" within your direct experience? Actually locate it. Observe "the brain". What you will notice is that "the brain" is a concept. And all concepts are 2nd order.

Your brain literally does not exist if you are not thinking about it. Thus you are prior to your brain. You can exist without a brain, but the brain cannot exist with you thinking about it.

Simply notice that brain is always located within Mind/Consciousness. Not the other way around. And furthermore, notice that any ideas you have that your mind is coming from your brain, notice that that's just more concepts.

"The brain" is a concept. "Brains create consciousness" is a concept. That's what these things literally are. The rest is stories you tell yourself.

[ZenSwift]

@Leo Gura

Thanks! 

If I understand you correctly, then that also means everything that is 2nd order, (not direct experience) doesn't exist as well. Which makes sense when you ask questions like: "How can you know that 5 minutes ago happened?", only coming to the logical conclusion that you ONLY have the present. 

I figure I'll realize this one deeply when I do 5meo.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, ZenSwift said:

If I understand you correctly, then that also means everything that is 2nd order, (not direct experience) doesn't exist as well.

No!

2nd order exists as much as 1st order. But 2nd order is not 1st order. The only problem is when you confuse them.

Quote

"How can you know that 5 minutes ago happened?", only coming to the logical conclusion that you ONLY have the present.

Past and future are 2nd order within the present.

Past and future really exist! As imagination.

The map is not the territory. But also it is.

[ZenSwift]

"The map is not the territory. But also it is."

Sounds strange loopy

 

 

I will sit on this to try and understand what you said. 

[Purple Man]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

 What is "the brain" within your direct experience?  What you will notice is that "the brain" is a concept. And all concepts are 2nd order.

Your brain literally does not exist if you are not thinking about it. Thus you are prior to your brain. 

Simply notice that brain is always located within Mind/Consciousness. Not the other way around. And furthermore, notice that any ideas you have that your mind is coming from your brain, notice that that's just more concepts.

"The brain" is a concept. "Brains create consciousness" is a concept. That's what these things literally are. The rest is stories you tell yourself.

Totally agree. But if that´s correct (and I have no doubt about it), that would also imply that "form" (every possible perceivable "something") is dependent on formlessness, not the other way round. Or, in other words, that "matter" is dependent on Consciousness, and of a different ontological status, as it´s my direct experience, which most don´t share.

That does not turn "matter" into a non-existent, but the Universe and every possible experience and perception residing within Consciousness turn the latter and the former into what you call "1st order" and "2nd order ", respectively. 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Purple Man

[Leo Gura]

Form and formlessness are identical. Both are present together.

[Purple Man]

Maybe it´s a semantic thing. I use  "form/formless" as synonimous to " Perceivable Universes/Consciousness".  Wouldn´t you say that every perceivable "something" (stars, planets, bodies, brains, hellish or heavenly realms, thoughts, angels, NDE´s tunnels, lights and beings) is a function of Consciousness? Because in my experience, even if I´m lifted to the highest, most subtle realm conceivable, that is also within Consciousness. Even my own body  is clearly  like a frozen form created within and by Consciousness. 

[Leo Gura]

Whatever you think exists or doesn't, if you think it's more than one thing, you're wrong.

[Matthew85]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Whatever you think exists or doesn't, 

@Leo Gura Leo, will you please expand on this? You are obliviously not just speaking about the thinking our finite ego minds do. Can talk more about how our finite mind can communicate with our higher mind? 

[Purple Man]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Whatever you think exists or doesn't, if you think it's more than one thing, you're wrong.

Yes, that mirrors my experience. I am not able to remain in the knowledge all the time, and I don´t even know if it´s possible to operate in a world like ours through that principle, but when I stop and breath, it´s clear that the dough is the same for a star and for an ant and for Mars. It´s all Consciousness, frozen fragments of the same substance.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Purple Man