Questions about Absolute Infinity/Reality that nobody is asking

[michaelcycle00]

Hey there, hope all is well. I will try not to make this post too long but there are some things that I wonder and constantly ask and research about myself regarding reality (or Absolute Infinity as Leo calls it) that I can't seem to find an answer to. And really I feel like close to no one wonders about it for some reason. Anyway, here we go:

I assume there are a few things about Infinity that we can all agree with, and that is that it is absolutely infinite, it's paradoxical, it's nonsensical, it's unlimited and not bound by anything at all as it all there is.  

Basically, if we were to reduce it to language or concepts it's more like magic and divinity than it is science or equations A.K.A. it cannot be understood. 

Now here comes the tricky part... apparently reality is infinite because it has nothing to bound it otherwise it wouldn't be the ultimate reality. At the same time, it is everything and nothing. 'Nothing' being absolutely nothing at all; void of qualities. What then, is the "everything" side of it according to us? I feel like people describe their "infinity" trip report experiences as simply never-ending/eternal rather than IT being infinitely many more. And by that, I don't mean the usual "time is infinite", "space is infinite", "everything that can happen exists simultaneously" that I've read many many many times over. No. I mean like there being infinitely many more beyond what we can conceive. People describe Absolute Infinity as either a multiverse of universes or an infinite amount of finite things. And boom there you have it, that's it that's Absolute Infinity/Reality. If it is unlimited and has nothing to be bound by then there should be many more "things" than a 4D Space-Time Universe even in all its different configurations. Infinitely so. People say "everything that can be, is", the "can" being restricting. In infinity, there shouldn't be no "can be's" because there's nothing outside of it to bound the "can's", rather, it should be "everything is because it is", point. 

I read a trip report here, saying that the matter that created the universe did so because it had nothing else to do and nowhere else to go. Couldn't just "God" decide to wipe it if it wanted to? It could just create it back from the nothingness if it wanted to at some point. It doesn't have to make sense because something can come from nothing, just because, for no reason at all. 

What I'm trying to say is, Absolute Infinity and the "why is reality the way it is?" question do not blend together. It is because it is and it is also infinitely more, and not. And beyond. Or at least it should be.

What is beyond the "can be's"? What is beyond the "it is this way because XYZ excuse"? Why is it either duality or non-duality and not infinitely more in between those states as well as previously and after them? Why is it either good or bad and not an infinite amount of other "emotions" that are no better or worse than the 2 main ones we know and can experience? Why would reality be a fractal and not infinitely beyond it? Why would Absolute Infinity be the ending point and not something beyond it? Surely we can't conceive there being something beyond Absolute Infinity because we can't understand it but we don't have to... and who's to say there isn't?

If you can't make sense of what I just said: is Absolute Infinity a complete mystery in the sense that at some point after "my" death or multiple deaths I will no longer wake up in this Universe as a human and instead be or experience something that we as humans have absolutely and will never have any point of reference for? No spatial dimensions, no senses, no concepts, etc (what we could boil down our existence to)... and despite this, whatever this other thing is it wouldn't be abstract, it would be... something else entirely? And then something new again and again ad infinitum. Or, is Absolute Infinity simply Dual/Non-dual 4D Space-Time Universe(s), self-repeating for eternity because there's nothing else that could've been? This contradicts what some describe this Infinity to be like. 

I'd love the input of people who feel, think, or are completely sure they've experienced "All-That-Is" or "Absolute Infinity" whatever that may be for them. Thanks! 

 

[The0Self]

18 minutes ago, michaelcycle00 said:

What is beyond

Utterly unknowable perfection. Can’t be spoken. The knowing is in the unknowing, you could say. There can’t be a conclusion — it’s infinite. “Experiences of the infinite,” as profound as they seem, are illusory, and they have absolutely no limit. It’s like a “Y” shape going up infinitely and it’s all just a dream, and yet there is no dream. Can’t be known and it can’t even not be known, as there’s no one separate from all there is to do that.

Edited September 12, 2021 by The0Self

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, michaelcycle00 said:

'Nothing' being absolutely nothing at all; void of qualities. What then, is the "everything" side of it according to us?

Any distinction that can be imagined.

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I read a trip report here, saying that the matter that created the universe did so because it had nothing else to do and nowhere else to go. Couldn't just "God" decide to wipe it if it wanted to? It could just create it back from the nothingness if it wanted to at some point. It doesn't have to make sense because something can come from nothing, just because, for no reason at all. 

Something IS Nothing.

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What I'm trying to say is, Absolute Infinity and the "why is reality the way it is?" question do not blend together. It is because it is and it is also infinitely more, and not. And beyond. Or at least it should be.

Actually it blends together perfectly. Absolute Infinity is Love, and all of reality is designed to maximize Love. So why is reality the way it is? Infinite Love!

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What is beyond the "can be's"? What is beyond the "it is this way because XYZ excuse"? Why is it either duality or non-duality and not infinitely more in between those states as well as previously and after them? Why is it either good or bad and not an infinite amount of other "emotions" that are no better or worse than the 2 main ones we know and can experience?

Love and Good are absolutes. They have no opposite. There is nothing beyond Infinite Love and Goodness. Stop here.

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Why would reality be a fractal and not infinitely beyond it? Why would Absolute Infinity be the ending point and not something beyond it? Surely we can't conceive there being something beyond Absolute Infinity because we can't understand it but we don't have to... and who's to say there isn't?

There is nothing beyond Absolute Infinity. Stop imagining stupid things. All the stupid things you imagine are inside Absolute Infinity, not outside it. Absolute Infinity cannot have an outside because the notion of "outside" is a distinction!

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If you can't make sense of what I just said: is Absolute Infinity a complete mystery in the sense that at some point after "my" death or multiple deaths I will no longer wake up in this Universe as a human and instead be or experience something that we as humans have absolutely and will never have any point of reference for? No spatial dimensions, no senses, no concepts, etc (what we could boil down our existence to)... and despite this, whatever this other thing is it wouldn't be abstract, it would be... something else entirely? And then something new again and again ad infinitum. Or, is Absolute Infinity simply Dual/Non-dual 4D Space-Time Universe(s), self-repeating for eternity because there's nothing else that could've been? This contradicts what some describe this Infinity to be like.

You keep creating distinctions and getting lost inside your own distinctions.

Absolute Infinity is the ability to create whatever distinctions you want. You can keep playing your game forever and yet never realize Absolute Infinity.

Absolute Infinity is not your ideas of it. All your ideas of Absolute Infinity are wrong. So stop.

[michaelcycle00]

20 hours ago, The0Self said:

Utterly unknowable perfection. Can’t be spoken. The knowing is in the unknowing, you could say. There can’t be a conclusion — it’s infinite. “Experiences of the infinite,” as profound as they seem, are illusory, and they have absolutely no limit. It’s like a “Y” shape going up infinitely and it’s all just a dream, and yet there is no dream. Can’t be known and it can’t even not be known, as there’s no one separate from all there is to do that.

Yeah, I'd agree with this 100% based on my research. Sure, "research" may not account for an actual trip experience but it all comes from experienced... "Psychonauts" I guess you could call them. I understand that there's no limit to what we could possibly think, desire or experience. Among other things. However, my question really boils down to: is Infinity simply an infinite amount of finite things? The Universe is a finite thing so basically Infinity according to what people who have experienced it (allegedly) describe it as basically every possible configuration the Universe could be in (still a finite number despite it being humongous) multiplied by Infinity which causes repetition, infinite repetition. This explains reincarnation and eternal time. Or the eternal now if you prefer. By the way, we're talking relativistically here, not in absolutes, otherwise, this discussion is pointless because I could be both right and wrong (and right and wrong and right and wrong blah blah blah) as far as we can know. 

But really, is God/Existence lacking in the novelty department? Most people's experiences lead me to believe it is so. Oh how many times have I read "time dilated during the trip and I felt like I had done this 'xyz thing' a million times before" (reincarnation). Are we doomed to experience the Universe forever? Why can't reality or God create infinitely many new complex things one absolutely different from the other so it never runs out of things to experience? And I don't mean in the sense of alien worlds in different planets and parallel universes where the water is color orange and stuff, no, I mean literally a whole 'nother reality that wouldn't make any sense at all if we were to somehow experience it, but it would to those who inhabit it. Why isn't the mystery of creation infinite? new thing after new thing all incomprehensible to those that only experience one finite reality at a time (say us), and then some. I hope this makes sense. 

[michaelcycle00]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Any distinction that can be imagined.

Sounds finite, but then again, why "that can be imagined" if it is unlimited? Or is it only so relative to our perspective? Is God simply an infinitely bigger version of a human mind that can "run" paradoxes and be composed out of nothingness?

 

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Something IS Nothing.

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Yep, I understand that's what it's composed of, but let's please stay within relativity here. I know in absolute terms this discussion and whatever God is or isn't is pointless which is why I'm not talking in absolutes. 

 

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually it blends together perfectly. Absolute Infinity is Love, and all of reality is designed to maximize Love. So why is reality the way it is? Infinite Love!

Well the different types of psychedelics yield different experiences and while you may get to this conclusion on say 5-Meo or NN-Dmt you could get the complete opposite of love from say Salvia. Unless you mean "Love" in absolute terms where a child getting mutilated is an act of love. But like I said, from a relative standpoint this isn't it. 

 

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Love and Good are absolutes. They have no opposite. There is nothing beyond Infinite Love and Goodness. Stop here.

Okay, why is it that way based on your experiences? If the answer is that it "couldn't have been any other way" then what exactly is it bounding it to be a certain way if there can't exist anything outside of it to do so? And if we go by the "Love and Good are absolutes" and "reality is designed to maximize love" premise which really is just to be at peace with itself regardless of what's going on then there shouldn't be a limit or any absolutes in any other sense simply because it's cool with whatever is going down. 

 

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is nothing beyond Absolute Infinity. Stop imagining stupid things. All the stupid things you imagine are inside Absolute Infinity, not outside it. Absolute Infinity cannot have an outside because the notion of "outside" is a distinction!

How exactly do you experience Absolute Infinity if it's really infinite unless it's simply a finite amount of things being repeated over and over again to a point where you're like: "oh ok this is it then"? And I'm not actually making distinctions I do understand that everything is one but whether it be by perception or else reality holds different attributes and/or qualities. Language simply fails me here. 

 

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Absolute Infinity is not your ideas of it. All your ideas of Absolute Infinity are wrong. So stop.

True, I remember you saying this: "The craziest part is that space and time are just two of infinitely many aspects of infinity. Infinity is not subject to space or time. Those are finities." Which really is what I've been trying to say all along and if we go by this then you're agreeing with me I believe... I just think that it's dumb to think that Infinity is simply a 4-D Space-Time Universe program with biological agents running itself start to finish over and over again ad infinitum and boom that's it. This is also would contradict another thing you said about it which was: "No wonder the mind cannot grasp it. It's infinitely beyond the mind. A billion minds working for a billion years will never even make 0.00000000001% progress towards grasping it." If it were simply: Good and Love are absolutes, the universe is it, time is eternal and self-repeating... boom. Then I see no reason why a billion minds working for a billion years couldn't figure it out lol. By the way, you said a lotta other things about it which were beautifully put and really moved me. Cheers. 

[Nahm]

@michaelcycle00

If you had a bunch of words spelled out on the floor with legos, you could say there are words there, yet there aren’t really, they’re legos. 

[allislove]

On 9/12/2021 at 10:44 AM, michaelcycle00 said:

I'd love the input of people who feel, think, or are completely sure they've experienced "All-That-Is" or "Absolute Infinity" whatever that may be for them. Thanks!

If "someone" is completely sure -- they are "full of shit" so to speak

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46. Jesus said, "From Adam to John the Baptist, among those born of women, no one is so much greater than John the Baptist that his eyes should not be averted.

But I have said that whoever among you becomes a child will recognize the (Father's) kingdom and will become greater than John."

 The goal is to be like a child --- daily morning meditation. ??????

[The0Self]

7 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Are we doomed to experience the Universe forever?

There isn't a we nor a universe. How this really is, is inescapable and cannot be known. There's only what appears to be. There's simply no separation of any kind at all, but even that cannot be known. It can happen that you feel separate and then suddenly you don't know if you're separate or not because all knowing is seen through as illusory, and then it's just indescribable. Indescribable in the sense that there's nothing better or more amazing, but if it were to be described it would sound utterly ordinary -- sitting on a chair, seeing a screen, etc -- the person just can't accept that that's as utterly indescribably amazing as it gets.

[Mu_]

8 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Yeah, I'd agree with this 100% based on my research. Sure, "research" may not account for an actual trip experience but it all comes from experienced... "Psychonauts" I guess you could call them. I understand that there's no limit to what we could possibly think, desire or experience. Among other things. However, my question really boils down to: is Infinity simply an infinite amount of finite things? The Universe is a finite thing so basically Infinity according to what people who have experienced it (allegedly) describe it as basically every possible configuration the Universe could be in (still a finite number despite it being humongous) multiplied by Infinity which causes repetition, infinite repetition. This explains reincarnation and eternal time. Or the eternal now if you prefer. By the way, we're talking relativistically here, not in absolutes, otherwise, this discussion is pointless because I could be both right and wrong (and right and wrong and right and wrong blah blah blah) as far as we can know. 

But really, is God/Existence lacking in the novelty department? Most people's experiences lead me to believe it is so. Oh how many times have I read "time dilated during the trip and I felt like I had done this 'xyz thing' a million times before" (reincarnation). Are we doomed to experience the Universe forever? Why can't reality or God create infinitely many new complex things one absolutely different from the other so it never runs out of things to experience? And I don't mean in the sense of alien worlds in different planets and parallel universes where the water is color orange and stuff, no, I mean literally a whole 'nother reality that wouldn't make any sense at all if we were to somehow experience it, but it would to those who inhabit it. Why isn't the mystery of creation infinite? new thing after new thing all incomprehensible to those that only experience one finite reality at a time (say us), and then some. I hope this makes sense. 

I agree, God/Existence is more than just infinite combinations of finite things, because there are actually no finite things, lol.  It gets into area's/experience that is not possible to understand or relate to as a "human" awakening to God realization.  But it really doesn't matter that this is so.

[michaelcycle00]

14 hours ago, Nahm said:

If you had a bunch of words spelled out on the floor with legos, you could say there are words there, yet there aren’t really, they’re legos. 

Right, perception. Something is nothing I suppose you're trying to say? But what does that have to do with what I'm asking? I'm not following. 

[michaelcycle00]

14 hours ago, allislove said:

If "someone" is completely sure -- they are "full of shit" so to speak

I mean sure you're right but we can still talk about it relatively. I don't really need to know exactly how it works, why it does and etc. I just want to know if it can pull (or is) infinitely many more out of its own nothingness that may have 0 to do with its current finite experience (Universe, Finity, Duality). Like is this the only form of finite existence that can be? I doubt it, but if it is so then why?  

[michaelcycle00]

13 hours ago, The0Self said:

There isn't a we nor a universe. How this really is, is inescapable and cannot be known. There's only what appears to be. There's simply no separation of any kind at all, but even that cannot be known. It can happen that you feel separate and then suddenly you don't know if you're separate or not because all knowing is seen through as illusory, and then it's just indescribable. Indescribable in the sense that there's nothing better or more amazing, but if it were to be described it would sound utterly ordinary -- sitting on a chair, seeing a screen, etc -- the person just can't accept that that's as utterly indescribably amazing as it gets.

So this is it then? The eternal present, no escape. Reincarnation. And it's the most amazing thing there is?

Can you expand on "How this really is, is inescapable and cannot be known" if possible?

[michaelcycle00]

13 hours ago, Mu_ said:

I agree, God/Existence is more than just infinite combinations of finite things, because there are actually no finite things, lol.  It gets into area's/experience that is not possible to understand or relate to as a "human" awakening to God realization.  But it really doesn't matter that this is so.

Yeah, I get it, I was just expecting some sort of verbal confirmation but it seems like no one ever thinks this kind of stuff and so my question doesn't even fit their paradigm. Like when you say "It gets into area's/experience that is not possible to understand or relate to as a "human" awakening to God-realization." that's exactly what I'm talking and asking about. 

[The0Self]

14 minutes ago, michaelcycle00 said:

So this is it then? The eternal present, no escape. Reincarnation. And it's the most amazing thing there is?

Can you expand on "How this really is, is inescapable and cannot be known" if possible?

There is no present. Only eternity. No one is present. There’s just what appears to be. It’s utterly ordinary. The apparent seeking energy apparently hides the awesomeness because it apparently sees things as apparently separate and real. When that seeking energy sputters out in hopeless despair nothing is left, and nothing is everything. The lived reality then is obviously just nothing typing, nothing breathing, nothing sitting, etc which is indescribably simple and ordinary and awesome.

This is all there is and it’s whole and complete, but the person cannot understand it because there’s actually no such thing as knowing.

This is just obviously real and unreal to no one. It can’t be comprehended.

Edited September 14, 2021 by The0Self

[Nahm]

7 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Right, perception. Something is nothing I suppose you're trying to say? But what does that have to do with what I'm asking? I'm not following. 

What seems to be thought about (infinite being) isn’t thought about, but is appearing as “thoughts”. 

[allislove]

8 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

I mean sure you're right but we can still talk about it relatively. I don't really need to know exactly how it works, why it does and etc. I just want to know if it can pull (or is) infinitely many more out of its own nothingness that may have 0 to do with its current finite experience (Universe, Finity, Duality).

To have any fair investigation you MUST know who is investigating... imagine there is a man who is reading a book but he doesn't know who he is. Sure, if the book is entertaining --- read it, otherwise drop the book and investigate "who is reading".  

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Like is this the only form of finite existence that can be?

There is no form --- only formless. There is no finite --- only infinite. There is only existence. There is only being. 

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I doubt it, but if it is so then why?

"Why" is conditioning, Love is unconditional