Never Call A Girl Fat

[Thought Art]

@Rilles Yeah, the old lady thought she was doing what was right. She didn't mean to attack, hurt or offend I don't think. I think she was protecting how she saw herself, ladies and the sacredness of church. Imo, she thought that because she was chubby, and the lady was chubby they were on common ground to have the conversation. She grew up in a time when women were told how to dress right for church.

Yes, it is body shaming. But, I wouldn't hate and attack the old woman. She has her perspective of what is right and it's different from the young lady or most people here on the forum I think. 

Everybody is acting from the best of intentions considering their own perspective. 

It was an unfortunate mix up.

I grew up with a grandmother who shamed me for many things like piercing my ears as a young man. People just see reality differently. I love my grandparents but, I tend to keep to myself these days. I can't take too much old people stage blue etc.

Like me doing Qigong and my artistic pursuits I think confuse them. To my grandmother psychology is Dr. Phil. 

There's not much I can do. It's funny when I see her transference her Dr. Phil attitude. 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Thought Art

[Harikrishnan]

I wonder how it feels for a progressive women with name karen ?

[Zega]

All the while wearing an agape shirt smh

[Rilles]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

@Rilles Yeah, the old lady thought she was doing what was right. She didn't mean to attack, hurt or offend I don't think. I think she was protecting how she saw herself, ladies and the sacredness of church. Imo, she thought that because she was chubby, and the lady was chubby they were on common ground to have the conversation. She grew up in a time when women were told how to dress right for church.

I think she was very harsh, even if she didnt mean to offend she could probably work on her delivery. I sensed some real anger in her, the girl was just the unfortunate bystander of her projection.

Yes, it is body shaming. But, I wouldn't hate and attack the old woman. She has her perspective of what is right and it's different from the young lady or most people here on the forum I think. 

But even if you know from a multi-perspectival point of view that everyone has good intention that doesnt mean you should let them run amok, the old lady needs to get some soft soft punishment for what she did, okay this sounds kinky omg, I will stop now. 

Everybody is acting from the best of intentions considering their own perspective. 

It was an unfortunate mix up.

I grew up with a grandmother who shamed me for many things like piercing my ears as a young man. People just see reality differently. I love my grandparents but, I tend to keep to myself these days. I can't take too much old people stage blue etc.

My moms an early boomer but somehow she has more Orange/Green in her than my dad who is Red/Blue so Im super happy for that haha.

Like me doing Qigong and my artistic pursuits I think confuse them. To my grandmother psychology is Dr. Phil. 

Hahaha...

There's not much I can do. It's funny when I see her transference her Dr. Phil attitude. 

 

[FlyingLotus]

5 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

That's a false equivalency 

Dont try to equate the reactions of the people who are in the receiving end of mistreatment with the person doing the mistreatment itself.  

?

-If I walked up to 100 people and called them chubby, fat, short or ugly I’d be lucky if I only got yelled at!  If you go around insulting people don’t be surprised if they clap back.  Human Decency 101.

 

-The point is the Church Karen was out of line because she was making it about the 19 year old’s weight.  It is possible to tell someone they’re violating a dress code without insulting their weight, height, looks, race, or anything else about them.  It’s like, if I wrote some inappropriate posts and a moderator messaged me saying:

"Please delete your posts; they violate the spirit of compassion and civility we are committed to at Actualized.org. 

Also, your momma’s so fat she was reincarnated as two people.  Namaste, you bitchy fatso.”

The first sentence would be absolutely, 100% fine and appropriate.  The second and third would not. 

 

-There's a big difference between insulting someone's destructive behavior and insulting someone for personal traits that aren't hurting people, especially if it's something they can't change and they get persecuted for, like race, religion, gender, height, weight, sexual orientation, etc.  It'd be wise for the 19 year old to do therapy on why weight matters so much, but the Karen is waaaay more in the wrong in this situation.    

[Thought Art]

@Rilles Yeah, me understanding people isn't like black or white. Like, I understand my current roommate is a bit lazy, selfish and forgetful. Yet, I am still laying down boundaries with compassion.

I can understand you, love you and understand why you do what you do. But, if you are in my space or interacting with me I will assert myself. I am not nice.

I am loving.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Thought Art

[PurpleTree]

i don't want to be a party pooper but am i the only one who finds the term "karen" problematic?

 

imo it's like calling all loud annoying black woman "laqueesha" or something like that or an asian woman any generic asian name.

 

i mean i know that it's not only used for white women but it probably is 99% of the time

 

and it's a real name that many women have, so not really fair for them either

[soos_mite_ah]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

i don't want to be a party pooper but am i the only one who finds the term "karen" problematic?

imo it's like calling all loud annoying black woman "laqueesha" or something like that or an asian woman any generic asian name.

Again, false equivalency. I think in these situations, it's important to take power dynamics into consideration. You're punching up when you use karen and because white women don't really face systemic issues because of their race, there isn't that much harm being done when you use the term unlike when you use something like "laqueesha." 

[Loba]

This thread makes me think of this song.

[Karmadhi]

This post is totally ridicioulous. ALL physical shaming language is bad and hurts other's self esteem. Why should being fat get such special treatment considering it is totally within someone's control. What about nose size shaming? What about dick size shaming? What about bald shaming? What about height shaming? What about eye/hair colour shaming? What about skin colour shaming? What about ear size or lip size shaming? What about eye size or shape shaming?

All things that you cannot change yet fatness get special treatment?

A person will feel a lot worse about himself when you shame them about something they cannot change compared to something you can change. All this fat acceptance stuff to me seems like rationalization of lazyness while millions are depressed about things that they cannot change, where is the empathy for them? 

If you wanna be so nice then be my guest, but all shaming should be removed not just fat shaming. Fat shaming imo should be the last to be removed since it is the one that is totally within your control.

In case all shaming is removed then great job, you are an amaizing human being however 99 percent of them shame on all the things i wrote above but for some reason fat shaming is soo cruel and mean, bias 101.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

i don't want to be a party pooper but am i the only one who finds the term "karen" problematic?

 

imo it's like calling all loud annoying black woman "laqueesha" or something like that or an asian woman any generic asian name.

 

i mean i know that it's not only used for white women but it probably is 99% of the time

 

and it's a real name that many women have, so not really fair for them either

Yeah it is that way.

It's low conscious behaviour... Calling it a 'Karen' is unfortunate. 

But, they exist as a social archetype I think. There are social archetypes that I think exist throughout society and we recognize these things. I don't think people are as unique as they think there are and in a given culture patterns arise. 

I don't really like laballing Karen, Laqueesha, or generic asian women and teasing and making fun of people the way people do on social media... filming these people to join in on the hating, laughing teasing. Yet, seeing a Karen harass a skateboarder or something is interesting.  Part of my thinks the Karen thing is funny and I get it. Though, it's unfortunate.

I am interesting in language that helps us understand and get to know people instead of judging them.

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Thought Art

[This]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

This post is totally ridicioulous. ALL physical shaming language is bad and hurts other's self esteem. Why should being fat get such special treatment considering it is totally within someone's control. What about nose size shaming? What about dick size shaming? What about bald shaming? What about height shaming? What about eye/hair colour shaming? What about skin colour shaming? What about ear size or lip size shaming? What about eye size or shape shaming?

All things that you cannot change yet fatness get special treatment?

A person will feel a lot worse about himself when you shame them about something they cannot change compared to something you can change. All this fat acceptance stuff to me seems like rationalization of lazyness while millions are depressed about things that they cannot change, where is the empathy for them? 

If you wanna be so nice then be my guest, but all shaming should be removed not just fat shaming. Fat shaming imo should be the last to be removed since it is the one that is totally within your control.

In case all shaming is removed then great job, you are an amaizing human being however 99 percent of them shame on all the things i wrote above but for some reason fat shaming is soo cruel and mean, bias 101.

When i was ~16 years old, this chubby girl told me i was too skinny, it hurt my feelings at the time but i said nothing because i had been told it's wrong to comment on peoples' appearance and i didn't want to make anyone cry.

If it someone started to describe my appearance to me now, i would kindly return the favor by giving them a description of their appearance as well.

I think i used to care too much.

Edited September 13, 2021 by This

[PurpleTree]

6 hours ago, Preety_India said:

When will people learn to be sensitive to other races that are not white. 

and people are allowed to be disrespectful towards whites?

 

do you know that asians make the most money as a "race" in the u.s.

so it is okay for blacks and whites in the u.s. to be insensitive towards asians because it's "punching up"?

 

according to google:

Race and EthnicityAloneAlone or in Combination with Other Races

CodeMedian household income (US$)

Asian Americans 85,897

White Americans 65,777

African Americans 43,892

 

5 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Again, false equivalency. I think in these situations, it's important to take power dynamics into consideration. You're punching up when you use karen and because white women don't really face systemic issues because of their race, there isn't that much harm being done when you use the term unlike when you use something like "laqueesha." 

nah not buying it  it's crap either way

 

[FlyingLotus]

          The term Karen is problematic.  I wish there was a better word for it.  Ultimately everyone needs to just treat each other with respect. 

          Of course, Karen isn’t nearly as bad as actual racial slurs.  Also, white people are represented in a myriad of multifaceted ways, so it’s different than minorities who are just starting to get represented.  If you meet a “Karen” you know not all white women are like that.

 

          Nice white ladies are awesome.  Hollywood not letting minorities tell their own stories as three dimensional humans is not.

          When someone in a privileged position who has it way better says, “I have it bad too!  What about meeeeeee?”  It’s like going to a rally for Cancer Research and yelling, “what about AIDS????”  AIDS is important, privileged people deserve compassion and love too, but depending on context it can sound really clueless.  It’s like this brilliant skit:

 

          There are a lot of stage green social changes going on in society, and they’re not going away.  If you have trouble getting triggered or even getting along with people who are different, it’s good to learn about other people’s life experience, especially if they're less privileged, for your own peace of mind.

Edited September 15, 2021 by FlyingLotus

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, FlyingLotus said:

          The term Karen is problematic.  I wish there was a better word for it.  Ultimately everyone needs to just treat each other with respect. 

ok but why do you specifically need a term for an "entitled white woman" or whatever it stands for?

can you not just call her an a hole or c**t?

[FlyingLotus]

     I said the term Karen is problematic.  I didn't say it's not problematic.

     If you're dealing with a difficult person it's helpful to be specific about how they're difficult.  A-hole or cu** isn't specific. 

     There's a pattern of white people attacking minorities over really normal stuff, like seeing black people drinking coffee at Starbucks, or Asian-Americans getting beaten, harassed and yelled at because covid started in Wuhan, China.  Just calling them jerks or abusers isn't helpful in diagnosing why this particular problem keeps happening.  

     Those posts aren't directed at you, btw.  They're for anyone reading or lurking ("Hello lurkers ?").  

     In general, it's a good test in self-bias to see what types of people you look at with compassion and nuance versus those you demonize or say, "they should just suck it up.  Their problems don't count.  It's just whining."  If, and I mean if because it's not all people, it's easier to see Fat Shaming lady at church with compassion and nuance, but it's difficult to see black people being harassed by the cops with the same nuance, it's good to notice that.  

     Everyone does it, but it's good to be aware of it.  Leo actually has a great blog episode about this:  How To Test For Self-Bias

Edited September 15, 2021 by FlyingLotus

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, FlyingLotus said:

     I said the term Karen is problematic.  I didn't say it's not problematic.

     If you're dealing with a difficult person it's helpful to be specific about how they're difficult.  A-hole or cu** isn't specific. 

     There's a pattern of white people attacking minorities over really normal stuff, like seeing black people drinking coffee at Starbucks, or Asian-Americans getting beaten, harassed and yelled at because covid started in Wuhan, China.  Just calling them jerks or abusers isn't helpful in diagnosing why this particular problem keeps happening.  

     Those posts aren't directed at you, btw.  They're for anyone reading or lurking ("Hello lurkers ?").  

     In general, it's a good test in self-bias to see what types of people you look at with compassion and nuance versus those you demonize or say, "they should just suck it up.  Their problems don't count.  It's just whining."  If, and I mean if because it's not all people, it's easier to see Fat Shaming lady at church with compassion and nuance, but it's difficult to see black people being harassed by the cops with the same nuance, it's good to notice that.  

     Everyone does it, but it's good to be aware of it.  Leo actually has a great blog episode about this:  How To Test For Self-Bias

sure but there's also a pattern of black people beating asians up in ny and sf on the streets lately (that's on youtube)

and there is also a pattern of asian store owners/clerks following black people around in stores and being in a way disrespectful to those black people.

and there are many other patterns

 

do we need also specific names for those patterns as well? i think not let's just also call them a-holes and c***s

Edited September 14, 2021 by PurpleTree

[FlyingLotus]

On 9/12/2021 at 9:27 PM, This said:

When i was ~16 years old, this chubby girl told me i was too skinny, it hurt my feelings at the time but i said nothing because i had been told it's wrong to comment on peoples' appearance and i didn't want to make anyone cry.

If it someone started to describe my appearance to me now, i would kindly return the favor by giving them a description of their appearance as well.

I think i used to care too much.

          There’s a really useful thing in standup when you’re being heckled.  Attack a heckler on their obnoxious behavior, not their weight, race, sex, religion or if they’re handicapped, etc.  If you attack that stuff versus their behavior the audience will forget about the heckler and turn on you and not want to hear your jokes.

          This takes some well honed, ninja social skills to pull off, but it’s a great skill to develop.

          If you want to get good at handling verbal attacks, it’s useful to study comedians dealing with hecklers.  Hannibal Burress is brilliant here.  These are all comedy pros who could eviscerate any thing about the heckler, but they’re focusing on shitty behavior (except Bill Burr, but he manages to win back the crowd which is startling).

 

          With that girl you could just point out she’s being really rude.  “Don’t you know it’s rude to call people too skinny?  Do you like it when people do that to you?  Why are you doing that?”  Sometimes reflecting a bully’s behavior to herself is a good way to get her to stop.  Tone is important too.  Being matter of fact, or maybe joking depending on the situation, is better than being pissy or weak about it.  It’s even better when everyone is agreeing with you that the bully’s out of line.  

Edited September 14, 2021 by FlyingLotus
typo

[FlyingLotus]

Racism is wrong, whether it's white people doing to non whites, or black people doing to Asians and vice versa.  Just because everyone's capable of racism doesn't make racism okay.  

[PurpleTree]

Just now, FlyingLotus said:

Racism is wrong, whether it's white people doing to non whites, or black people doing to Asians and vice versa.  Just because everyone's capable of racism doesn't make racism okay.  

that's what i'm saying, so we don't need specifically a term for white women doing it or else its...........racism

 

also pls drop the term "white old men"