Solipsism Thought Experiments - Me and Leo sitting in a room

[Setzer901]

Okay, solipsism has been affecting me mentally for a while, so I wanted to start this thread to understand logically what's going on 

Typical Objection: Take a psychedelic bro, this is all mental masturbation. You can't solve this through logic. 

Okay, I know I'm mentally masturbating, but I don't have psychedelics in my country; hence my only option is to understand this logically. So humor me. 

Experiment 1

Imagine Me and Leo were sitting in a room. Leo takes some 5-Meo-DMT and becomes God in front of my eyes, collapsing all of reality. 

However, all I(ego-me) sees is Leo's eyes rolled up, deep in his trip.

So how is it that God has 'collapsed all perspectives and taken the universe with Him', whereas my ego-perspective hasn't collapsed, and my Universe still exists? Doesn't it mean that Leo's ego has dissolved and he's identified/become God, but at the same moment, I'm God identifying as my ego, wondering what the fuck is going on?

If you don't understand what I mean by 'collapsing all perspectives', look at the following timestamp: 

 

 

Anyone who has any issues with solipsism, add your own thought experiments so we can let our egos rest in peace. 

P.S Please make a distinction between the ego-you vs. God-you in this thread, as I feel people often conflate both. Also, talk about this from the relativistic perspective, not the Absolute.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Setzer901

[Breakingthewall]

I would say that for you, you are the only thing that exists, a display of imaginary dualities that can collapse and be not two, leo exist in your imagination, but for him, there is only him and you are in his imagination, and really none of the two exist but you are a set of imaginary dualities that seem to happen at the same time but really there is no such thing as "happen" but the totality being. It seems that there are infinite points of view and you are only one of them, and you cannot access the others, but the reality is that your point of view and mine, and that of a fly, are the same, but they seem several, and they are really none, only the still totality. nothing that can be understood imo

Edited September 11, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[LastThursday]

5 hours ago, Setzer901 said:

So how is it that God has 'collapsed all perspectives and taken the universe with Him', whereas my ego-perspective hasn't collapsed,

The whole point of an ego is that it doesn't collapse, a collapsed ego is no ego at all. What you are natively is already collapsed, it's just that your ego is a self-sustaining entity inside of that "collapsed perspectives". In a sense Leo is doing nothing special, except (temporarily) removing the impediments to "seeing clearly" what he really is. Those impediments (his ego etc.) are natural but illusory, as is everything. Whatever 5-MeO-DMT does, it reveals the illusory nature of things for what they are, and what's left behind is absoluteness.

Bear in mind that Leo is actually part of you. What happens to him affects you too. Consciousness is infinitely subtle. We only have the impression that we are stranded on islands of consciousness. We can reveal ourselves by talking to each other, or with body language, but there's always infinitely subtle communication between us at all times (perhaps chemical, telepathy, some unknown force). This is the only way to reconcile the problem of whether we are "the only consciousness" or if there are "many consciousnesses". Solipsism is both true and false at the same time. We are all infinitely connected as if we were one - which we are.

[Mason Riggle]

There is no 'me separate from you' any more than the inside of a cup is separate from the outside of a cup. The separation is an imaginary duality. This is how we 'know' (describe) a cup. Reality 'knows' itself (Is One Infinite Consciousness appearing as many finite 'things') by 'pretending' to be separate from itself. 

The inside is Relative to the outside. The inside is defined by the outside. 

You are defined by 'that which is not you'. 

When you experience Leo tripping.. what exists is not 'Leo tripping' but rather, 'your experience of Leo tripping'. 

Similarly, when you dream of a dog barking, what exists is not 'a dog barking', but rather, 'your dream of a dog barking'. 

That you dreamed a dog barking, is not evidence for the existence of a dog barking, only evidence that the dream exists. 

You only have evidence (it's self evident) of your experience, and nothing more. 

 

[LastThursday]

An analogy. Does the Sun go around the Earth, the Earth around the Sun or do they go around each other?

8 hours ago, Mason Riggle said:

You only have evidence (it's self evident) of your experience, and nothing more. 

How deep is that self evident experience? Is it finite?

[Leo Gura]

Consider this:

You and a unicorn are sitting on the couch. The unicorn takes a bunch of DMT and talks to you about how you are God. Then your alarm rings and you wake up from your dream. You realize the unicorn never existed and nothing ever happened.

YOU ARE DREAMING! The end. Stop right there. Anything more you think will just be more dreaming. All your logic is dreamed up bullshit.

[OBEler]

@Breakingthewall great answer. I understand much more now

[Setzer901]

@Breakingthewall @OBEler

Could you explain that more precisely? I don't think I understood the explanation.

@LastThursday What you say makes sense! Thanks for sharing your perspective:)

@Leo Gura Okay let's take this example seriously. I think if we define words carefully, this will all make sense. 

Me and the unicorn are sitting on the couch. We were making love. So somewhere out there in the Universe(God's mind) there's a Unicorn bubble reality/perspective and my bubble perspective. 

Then the alarm rings. I wake up knowing I'm God, and that there wasn't a human me and there wasn't a unicorn. But the God inside the unicorn bubble perspective is unconscious and still having his bubble reality(in some other timeline/state in God's mind)? 

The whole problem with solipsism comes from denying bubble realities/other's perspectives. Now I know you'll say that bubble reality is a thought in my head(I'm 'imagining' it), and there is no 'other'. 

But there has to be a bubble reality for everyone on the relative level. Maybe in God's Mind he sees/experiences/Is all bubble realities simultaneously. But I only care about the relative now.

 

[Mason Riggle]

One time, I was really stoned playing Sonic the Hedgehog II and something strange happened. The designers of the game added a fun little feature to Sonic's 'character' so that if you set the controller down and do nothing, after so long of being idle, Sonic grows impatient and crosses his arms and taps his foot.  Noticing this gave me the strange sensation of Sonic being a 'real character' in a real game world, and I was controlling him, and he was aware I was controlling him.. 

Sounds rather silly to think that Sonic had a perspective and experience of his own.

But I also recognize it might be just as silly to be certain that 'others' in my experience have their own experience and perspective, just because it seems that way to me. 

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Mason Riggle said:

One time, I was really stoned playing Sonic the Hedgehog II and something strange happened. The designers of the game added a fun little feature to Sonic's 'character' so that if you set the controller down and do nothing, after so long of being idle, Sonic grows impatient and crosses his arms and taps his foot.  Noticing this gave me the strange sensation of Sonic being a 'real character' in a real game world, and I was controlling him, and he was aware I was controlling him.. 

Sounds rather silly to think that Sonic had a perspective and experience of his own.

But I also recognize it might be just as silly to be certain that 'others' in my experience have their own experience and perspective, just because it seems that way to me. 

Do you think it might even be like that movie The Truman Show, where everyone around us could be acting a certain way based on our state of consciousness ?  

[Mason Riggle]

@Wilhelm44 I think Reality is EXACTLY how it Seems AND not at all how it seems. 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Wilhelm44]

@Mason Riggle   Thank you 

[Leo Gura]

@Setzer901 You're being too dense to get it. Good luck with that.

[allislove]

On 9/11/2021 at 5:09 PM, Setzer901 said:

Okay, I know I'm mentally masturbating, but I don't have psychedelics in my country; hence my only option is to understand this logically. So humor me. 

Psychedelics is a very useful tool but ultimately the experience is triggered (so to speak) by you, not psychedelics. The goal of psychedelic is to realize that you are the ultimate psychedelic. Just start a daily morning meditation practice bumping the duration to 1 hour over time. Sooner or later the call will be answered. ??

[Eren Eeager]

@Setzer901 God divided it self into the many. The many imagines themselves to be individuals and separate. When one of those individuals finally realizes it is God,everything collapses into oness for ever and God realizes it is the only thing that ever existed. The self exists only because you are decieving yourself into imagining it and the whole universe with it. So if you become conscious enough, all the universe will disappear for ever.

[Eren Eeager]

@Leo Gura Was wondering for a while if this is an accurate representation of mahasmadhi?

 

[Adrian325]

@Eren Eeager i love that movie. I think it's more of a representation of transcending death... And when the flowers grow out of his stomach and he's freaking out was a representation of ego death.