Meta perspective on 9/11

[Natasha]

Are there still anger, fear, sadness? Do you see it as evil act or someone's act of love? How unbiased are you? 

[Endangered-EGO]

@Natasha I wasn't old enough to be traumatised 9/11 and too far overseas. But I remember the bataclan attacks in paris.

To answer your questions: There's still anger and fear. Especially against muslims who are in SD stage blue and not compatible with western values.

I'm so biased that my first intuition, if SD-blue-Islam says A, I'm gonna want to say B.

I consider every muslim who wears a hijab or doesn't eat porc, bc of their beliefs (not bc of culture) SD stage blue.

I currently live in belgium, and some neighborhoods in cities make you feel like you're in the middle east, which disgusts me.

So you can say I'm pretty biased, but I am aware of my bias.

Ofc when I talk to SD-blue-muslims about anything else than beliefs or ideology, that bias disappears.

[Natasha]

@Endangered-EGO I hear you! I can go meta on it and let go of all personal attachment, etc. Though it's easier to do when in the comfort of your safe environment, but if my loved ones' life was endangered, I'd have to work through some hard emotions, for sure. Only shows how deeply we're wired for survival on a very instinctive subconscious level.

[Tim R]

3 hours ago, Natasha said:

Are there still anger, fear, sadness? Do you see it as evil act or someone's act of love?

Not anger, not fear, but definitely sadness. And deep dismay, along with appallment and disbelief. 

I was watching some old clips and videos from that day this morning, and the live news from New York back then, and it seemed just surreal after a certain point..

Although I think I know what you mean by "going meta" in this context, I deliberately don't merely detach from / go meta on this situation. Because my emotional "attachment" to it is intentional and a very conscious decision. Attachment - detachment - compassion 
This is what I think the process of going meta looks like. First we are emotionally and otherwise attached, then we learn to detach. And when we know how to be fundamentally detached, we can allow ourselves to "attach" again, but this time it is not ordinary attachment, but a kind of detached compassion that requires a deep, deep emotional intimacy with the situation. 

Although I gotta say, it's very difficult for me to recognize the love in this act. The horror that so many thousands of people have experienced just drowns out the love for me. Maybe at some point. 

[Guest EmptyVase]

Isn't it okay to feel sadness, as an expression of love? Must it be biased if it isn't 'love, as love' that you're feeling? @Natasha

[Matthew85]

@Natasha Very interesting question Natasha. How do I feel about it currently? People cannot act from a level of consciousness beyond their current level. So no anger or fear comes up for me. More and more as I observe things occurring in my reality, it is a reminder to look inward at myself and see where am I acting in a similar way toward myself or others. It is very interesting to watch how the more I do the internal work my outer reality shifts. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Matthew85

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

currently live in belgium, and some neighborhoods in cities make you feel like you're in the middle east, which disgusts me.

4 hours ago, Natasha said:

 

Hitler thought the same when walking through some Berlin neighborhoods.

About the towers, the west bombed Baghdad in response. the attack on the towers was done by a terrorist group, the destruction of Baghdad or Libya, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, leaving it disintegrated, in the hands of warlords who trade in slaves, was planned and executed by democratic governments of welfare states. crazy right?

[Someone here]

6 hours ago, Natasha said:

Do you see it as evil act or someone's act of love? 

It's pure love and goodness. 

[Endangered-EGO]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Hitler thought the same when walking through some Berlin neighborhoods.

About the towers, the west bombed Baghdad in response. the attack on the towers was done by a terrorist group, the destruction of Baghdad or Libya, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, leaving it disintegrated, in the hands of warlords who trade in slaves, was planned and executed by democratic governments of welfare states. crazy right?

@Breakingthewall  I'm very aware of that.

The good thing is there hasn't been a new hitler type overreaction (yet). 

Imagine jews had flown planes into buildings and shot up huge crowds of people for the world to recognize Israel pre WW2. Hitler would have had more allies in the extermination of jews.

The afghanistan war wasn't an overreaction in my opinion.

[Endangered-EGO]

20 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

9/11 is the ultimate example of American self bias. The United States has done so much worse, the Iraq war would kill so much more civilians. American Libyan involvement has ruined Libya for years to come. Yet we don't see funerals and monuments for those victims, not even in their home countries.

@Husseinisdoingfine The people in power thought Sadam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and ties with Al-Qaida.

Bad intelligence. A huge fuck-up.  Or who really knows what goes on

[Tim R]

I doubt that there are even 3 people here who are truly capable of seeing 9/11 as an act of "pure love and goodness". 

Because if one were to say something like that as a mere platitude, that would be disgusting and a clear sign that one ought to examine ones values and principles.

I say this so bluntly because there's too many people on the forum who rationalize everything to death and project some abstract philosophy of goodness, love and perfection on the world, when in fact, they haven't even begun to properly develop their values, let alone deconstruct their biases... 

[GoobyBooby]

"my" fault since "I" imagined 9/11 happening

To what greater purpose it serves is yet to be seen. Maybe when the global-cabal responsible for 9/11 comes to justice, it will make a nice "end to the movie"

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

The good thing is there hasn't been a new hitler type overreaction (yet). 

Well, destroy two countries is quite overreacting. As you say, the war in Afghanistan could be considered justified, but the rest ... there are no words for so much stupidity and evil together.

From the spiritual point of view, there is no right or wrong, it is only reality, and reality is love. the congo guerrillas forcing 8-year-old children to torture their mothers to death to make them psychopaths are love. terror and suffering are love. That your parents sell you to a Filipino brothel when you are 6 years old,  to pay for methamphetamine, it's love. the party of love. It is very difficult to understand it, I do not understand it right now, but in some moments I do

[Natasha]

6 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

Isn't it okay to feel sadness, as an expression of love? Must it be biased if it isn't 'love, as love' that you're feeling? @Natasha

Good point 

[Natasha]

6 hours ago, Matthew85 said:

@Natasha Very interesting question Natasha. How do I feel about it currently? People cannot act from a level of consciousness beyond their current level. So no anger or fear comes up for me. More and more as I observe things occurring in my reality, it is a reminder to look inward at myself and see where am I acting in a similar way toward myself or others. It is very interesting to watch how the more I do the internal work my outer reality shifts. 

Yes, same. This work chips away from anger and fear, for sure. Reality is not as threatening as it once used to be. 

[Endangered-EGO]

9 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

No they didn't, they knew that both of this was false.

@Husseinisdoingfine Those are hard accusations and up to today, nothing more than conspiracy theory. Prove that if it's not.

There's a difference between, the evidence was later on seen as inconclusive or based on false information that the CIA acquired, and :"Someone made that shit up and faked reasons to invade iraq"

If you're afraid Iraq has ties with al Qaida, you're gonna look for any possible relation between the two and find some things. It's called confirmation bias, and then people talk about it, and more evidence is sought, the ball gets rolling.

Nobody wanted to prove that Iraq DIDN'T have real ties with Al Qaida or WMDs.


If you don't want to make the same mistake as the US did during the gathering information, look for information to disprove the hypothesis that: "They deliberately made that shit up, to invade Iraq for this and that reason".

 

[Danioover9000]

@Husseinisdoingfine

13 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

No they didn't, they knew that both of this was false.

   Prove it.

[PurpleTree]

the ones who did it thought it was a good thing, whoever was behind it and for whichever reasons

 

personally i'm not angry or sad about that particular thing but i also don't really have a dog in the fight because i don't live in the u.s. nor in the middle east. although i do think it's sad that the wars and conflict haven't stopped since then and made the world worse imo