How much Theorie is needed for enlightenment ?

[Gesundheit2]

@Jannes I don't think of the path that way. I think of it more of a journey of self exploration. So, I have no expectations and I welcome anything that comes my way. The path is about personal truth, not about following the footprints of others.

[Jannes]

10 hours ago, aurum said:

Commit whatever you can. If 1-2 hours a day of self-inquiry is what time you have, go for it. But also realize there may be a time when you want to commit more.

The more the better right ? I am studying right now and have long semester breaks so the time is good to commit. I just want to have a little taste of enlightenment so I know it is real. Did you have an enlightenment expercience? If so how long did it take you ?

[aurum]

8 minutes ago, Jannes said:

Did you have an enlightenment expercience?

Yes, I’ve had several.

9 minutes ago, Jannes said:

If so how long did it take you ?

From the point of consciously learning what enlightenment is, about a month of daily practice.

But my results may not mirror yours. I had unconsciously been laying the foundation for an experience like that for years. So it may take you much longer, depending on how much groundwork you’ve done.

Also, keep in mind I wasn’t asking myself “how long is this going to take?” like it was some sort of chore. It’s understandable that you feel that way and that you want to know if this is real. That’s normal. But I’d suggest taking a longer term perspective if you can. This is a life long endeavor. There’s always more to learn. You’ll never get it done, ever.

Commit to finding truth, commit to discovering yourself, commit to your happiness. Not checking enlightenment off on your to-do list. And then start putting in the work everyday.

[Jannes]

10 hours ago, Mu_ said:

Ya thats as good as start as any One pointer I'll give you is, dont look for an object of "who" is perceiving, this is a trap of the mind that can happen.  Notice when there is looking for a "who" or an "object of what is perceiving, that perceiving is happening and innately aware of so.

When this starts to sink in and become natural so to say as in there is not a looking for a "who", but just comfortably sitting, not trying to be aware, just aware, the next mind trap is a voice of "ok now what or so what, big deal, what do I do with this, I want something out of being aware".  Just literally smile and let that pass.  This may be a good time to start reading more and listening to some new pointers or new stuff to try and cultivate.

But If you can just do sitting aware, it may become natural to notice thoughts and emotions more naturally and in doing so, the deceptions and victimization or strong anger attachments or feelings of deserving this or that, or expecting this or that, or fearing future possibilities that haven't happened or happened and no longer happen, will be seen as just thought and emotion patterns, and won't be as strong on the system.  But this is easier said than done, this takes some real inner strength and discipline to go through.   This is where a meditation practice is useful and helps both elevate consciousness in some sense and gives a place just to be with what comes and goes through 

The problem that I have is that I always notice myself observing so I try to oberserve the observing and try to observe who observes the observing… and it’s kind of impossible to actually go meta it only feels like it for half a second when I “refresh“. So I often spent a lot of time during that instead of actually looking. Is that normal at the beginning ?

[Jannes]

@aurum I told myself in the beginning that enlightenment would come relatively “easy“ to me compared to other people because many parts of me had a strong intuition that enlightenment is the way and now it all came together. I also might had an enlightenment experience in kindergarden. It would explain why I was walking on clouds full of joy although I was a lonely kid and sometimes this feeling I had as a kid still hits me today especially in my deep nihilism phase for like 1/10 of a second and that feeling is so overwhelming that I would drop every attachment to live just to bath in that feeling. I just really want to know if this can be “archived“ and then I will be 100% on that path. And I also really want to drop all the doubt because I know if enlightenment isn’t real then “normal living“ is probably not worth living. So yeah it would be so cool to finally reconnect with that “source of joy“ and really see that there is fundamentally nothing wrong with existence itself. ?

PS: I don’t know how to undo quoting  

Quote

16 hours ago, Scholar said:

[Nahm]

20 hours ago, Jannes said:

I watched maybe about 40 hours about Enlightenment Theorie. A lot from Leo but also from different sources. My thought process was that this is enough to not fall into traps when doing self inquiry for enlightenment and anything extra doesn’t give you much because theorie is always false anyway so why should I waste my time with extra theorie when the actual insights can only come from direct experience so from exercises. But then in a recent video Leo said that any spiritual seeker should read at least 16 books about nonduality. So what now ? Is this really necessary ? If it’s needed I would do it but self inquiry sucks and the Theorie also isn’t that interesting to me so when I could leave this out I would have more time and motivation for self inquiry.

Someone else experiences, shares, and you call that vibrational experience enlightenment theory. 

[Jannes]

@Nahm yeah it’s theorie to me because I don’t know it for myself.

[Nahm]

@Jannes 

It,1…theory, 2…me, 3…I, 4…myself, 5. 

You say there are 5 separate components at play (maybe 4 in all fairness), while the theory you speak of says not-two. You’re utilizing the theory, vs hearing it. 

[The0Self]

@Jannes

Just another pointer:

The I couldn’t give a fuck about well-being or peace or anything at all except one thing — it only cares about being real. No matter what it tells itself, that’s actually all it cares about, and indeed all it does is whatever it needs to do to stay apparently real.

Edited September 10, 2021 by The0Self

[Mu_]

6 hours ago, Jannes said:

The problem that I have is that I always notice myself observing so I try to oberserve the observing and try to observe who observes the observing… and it’s kind of impossible to actually go meta it only feels like it for half a second when I “refresh“. So I often spent a lot of time during that instead of actually looking. Is that normal at the beginning ?

Hmm when you put it like that, the practice almost sounds like it may reinforce your already strong habit of liking to observe and discern.  This may not be easy, but I'd try something different.  Sit with your eye's slightly open for 5-20 mins, you decide, but after you decide, don't change how much time your doing it for no matter what.  During this time, dont try to observe, but dont try not to observe, and just let all thought and emotion come and go as it does.  Vaguely notice, that observation/awarness of experience happens none the less.  Hearing happens, sight happens, feeling happens, breathing happens, etc.  Just let this be noticed over and over again, till its just normal and natural.  Then look what I wrote before on how this may be applicablely helpful in your life.

[Jannes]

21 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Hmm when you put it like that, the practice almost sounds like it may reinforce your already strong habit of liking to observe and discern.  This may not be easy, but I'd try something different.  Sit with your eye's slightly open for 5-20 mins, you decide, but after you decide, don't change how much time your doing it for no matter what.  During this time, dont try to observe, but dont try not to observe, and just let all thought and emotion come and go as it does.  Vaguely notice, that observation/awarness of experience happens none the less.  Hearing happens, sight happens, feeling happens, breathing happens, etc.  Just let this be noticed over and over again, till its just normal and natural.  Then look what I wrote before on how this may be applicablely helpful in your life.

I view myself in 3rd Person for many years now. It’s so normal for me that I often forget that I do that. And yes I have a strong habit of observing and discerning. So maybe you are right, maybe I build a strong ego around being the observer only a false ego observer. That’s actually pretty funny. Thanks for the exercise I will try it out ??

[Mu_]

10 minutes ago, Jannes said:

I view myself in 3rd Person for many years now. It’s so normal for me that I often forget that I do that. And yes I have a strong habit of observing and discerning. So maybe you are right, maybe I build a strong ego around being the observer only a false ego observer. That’s actually pretty funny. Thanks for the exercise I will try it out ??

Ya no problem.