Can we stop with the vulgar and toxic language here?

[Tangerinedream]

People please be more conscious about the way you word things and speak about others. There is so much toxic language being used here, lots of profanity towards others and hateful words. Especially in regards to women.   Very offensive words and phrases get used all the time, this is supposed to be a personal development and consciousness forum. Please just think about what you’re saying and how what you say might be triggering or upsetting.

[Eph75]

While that is true, also is when getting triggered, examine your triggers and transcend the underlying issue.

That is development.

That we can own. 

Use it as an opportunity to grow and to practice. It's likely to always exist in some form that is seen as toxic. 

There takes someone to get triggered for triggering language to exist.

Also often these toxic long-winded conversations are kept alive due to none of the argumenting parties step into a higher quality level of communication.

[Tangerinedream]

@Eph75 yes of course. But people should also take responsibility for their own actions and what they are saying.  Just another case of the triggerer taking no blame and the triggered one having to accept it rather than coming together as a community.  But this isn’t just about any one solo person being triggered, this type of language incites hate in the community.  And of course it’s going to be women who are more triggered since most stuff is directed towards them, so men won’t notice it as much. 
 

[Tangerinedream]

The way leo shuts down any talk about anti-vax.  The same moderation should be taken here when it’s inciting hate against women. But it won’t be because it’s so normalised. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Tangerinedream

[Gesundheit2]

@Tangerinedream Can you give some examples? I may have unknowingly said something in the past and would like to become a better person.

[hamedsf]

some of people here show great interest in censorship, here's your favorite article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship#:~:text=Censorship is the suppression of,sensitive%2C or "inconvenient".&text=Other groups or institutions may propose and petition for censorship.

[Eph75]

@Tangerinedream Looking at your last post in another topic where you called out "toxic" and "vulgar", you're just reacting towards someone you disagree with and towards language that you don't think someone should use.

If we were to normalize language so that no one can express themselves without tip-toeing and thinking thrice about the language used, so that no one could possible get offended, then we're heading in a truly toxic direction. It's also not possible, because it's the past experiences of the individual that adds the interpretation of what is being said, and will find implicit offensive meaning also where there is none, based on that own meaning-making.

Of course there are extreme cases and there are limits. Such limits aren't commonly challenged. Of course I read far from everything, but I have never seen such cases here, and I tend to read some of these young male frustration topics around not being able to have relationships they want, or any relationship at all. Such topics where your sense of "toxicity" and "vulgarity" is at least fairly common, and where people get triggered.

Also there's always going to be someone that is sensitive that will get triggered, and in these cases it calls for examining ones own emotional handling and further develop EQ.

That in itself might be triggering, as a lot of people think high EQ is to have high sensitivity and justify lack of constructive responses based on this, but that's not EQ.

• Knowing your emotions
• Managing emotions
• Motivating yourself
• Recognizing emotions in others (empathy)
• Handling relationships

A common culprit is that we emotionally attach to the beliefs and values we have, meaning that attacking our values is equivalent with an attack on our person, which it of course is not.

You can't change others, but you can develop yourself so that you can better reach and influence others. So turn inwards and examine what the development opportunity here would be.

That's what this forum is REALLY about, yes?

Not about getting caught up in some fruitless argument around young males venting disappointments and frustrations.

You might see that as "wrong", but that also a development opportunity, that isn't related to learning seeing this as "right", it's about recognizing perspectives.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Eph75

[Preety_India]

Sometimes I like them using that language. 

I immediately know who to put on ignore. Makes it much easier. 

When we don't censor too much, the devil makes itself known as the devil is always in the details. 

When we censor too much, the devil has an easy escape. 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Preety_India

[Emir]

Why would you care about words. Contemplate about why some kind of resistance happens in you when you read a "bad word".

Instead of creating threads to get rid of "toxic language", you can contemplate about why that vulgarity upsets you. Why would you get triggered about some shapes created by pixels in your screen. 

Maybe if you could stop identifying yourself as a woman or man or whatever, such things will stop bothering you.

Would it be better trying to destroy such things, or to make them your teacher, reminding you to be aware, instead of fighting with them?

Edited September 9, 2021 by Emir

[Leo Gura]

Yes, you are right. I will try to set a better example. I have been guilty of vulgarities.

We do shut down toxic Red Pill and Black Pill threads here. And we will continue to do that.

We also want to make this place more appealing for women and I haven't done the best job of that in the past. I will try to be less biased on that.

[Vzdoh]

I simply report posts where I see blatant attacks on me personally or discussion of my personal stuff that I didn't ask for. 

Don't be afraid to report. If u feel offended or insulted by soneone, its not your imagination ?

[Preety_India]

This particular section is extremely toxic to women. If you are a woman, you are going to be having  a hard time here simply reading the threads. A lot of woman hate and women are instantly targeted whenever they try to protest against it. 

I don't think it's going to be happening anytime soon here. 

I found the best option is to simply leave this section all together and not focus on the negativity toward women in this section. It's not going to change. 

I would just label it as "dump all your problems on women" section. 

And I guess it will stay that way for quite a while. I rarely come here now. 

I just ignore most threads here. There's no point in arguing because most people don't want to drop their views or accept what the other person is trying to say. It's like two walls talking to each other. It leads nowhere. 

 

[Raphael]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, you are right. I will try to set a better example. I have been guilty of vulgarities.

We do shut down toxic Red Pill and Black Pill threads here. And we will continue to do that.

We also want to make this place more appealing for women and I haven't done the best job of that in the past. I will try to be less biased on that.

Also, for guys who don't have a lot of experience, this is possible to get brainwash just by reading this place because of how much abusive language is used towards women. This is similar to how people get brainwash on incel forums.

I saw this happening a bit in me in the past so I decided to cut this subforum 95% of the time to avoid the toxicity.

We need higher standards here with less stereotyping.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Raphael said:

Also, for guys who don't have a lot of experience, this is possible to get brainwash just by reading this place because of how much abusive language is used towards women. This is similar to how people get brainwash on incel forums.

I saw this happening a bit in me in the past so I decided to cut this subforum 95% of the time to avoid the toxicity.

We need higher standards here with less stereotyping.

Point noted. We def don't want that.

[something_else]

I actually noticed myself feeling a bit crappy after reading a lot of the threads in the dating section, yet I keep doing it. It happens to be the section most aligned with my development at the moment so I tend to view it the most. I'm not actually convinced it helps though, and in fact like @Raphael said it might even hurt. It certainly doesn't make me feel good.

I think many guys use it as a distraction, I'm certainly guilty of that

[somegirl]

"Hot women in their 20s have lots of sex", "you can't tell me most girls don't do this and that", "girls who go to the clubs do so because of sex, you can't tell me otherwise"... Can you stop with this already? I don't know where you guys grow up in, it must be tough there, but it's not like that everywhere. 

Using such vulgar phrases and insulting names such as "whore, slut" and overgeneralizing is so toxic. I also feel awful when I look at those comments. Not because I identify with it, but because it kind of proves my point (that I try not to believe) that men indeed treat women as non-humans, with no emotions and integrity. 

Can you consider the fact that some girls who CAN have sex with most guys, just DON'T? Crazy, right? I know, I was mind-blown too.

Stop looking at girls as non-human walking vaginas that have no brains and dignity of their own. 

[Karmadhi]

Another thing which i would like improved here is whenever you think someone is wrong then explain to them why they are wrong. You are wrong/biased etc is not enough, an explanation of why they are so would be more useful.  Do you really expect a super stubborn person to understand it all by himself without any guidance? I noticed it in the girls want traditional man thread that was locked, not a good job was done to explain the OP why he was biased and wrong.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Karmadhi

[something_else]

Quote

not a good job was done to explain the OP why he was biased and wrong.

Look at every thread he's made. There's no point.

Quote

Point noted. We def don't want that.

@Leo Gura I think a good option could be to restrict the kind of threads that can be made in the dating section a little bit more. A lot of the toxicity comes from threads that start with things like "why do girls do x" "why are men like y" "do all girls want this". 

These are essentially an invitation for everyone to start discussing their frustrations with the opposite sex by generalising way too much and essentially creating literal straw-men and straw-women in their heads to bash and take out frustration upon. It doesn't help anyone because it's way too general and people are arguing against the ideas of men/women they have in their heads rather than reality.

When I think back, a lot of the toxicity I've seen arises from these kinds of threads, and I think it would be a sensible idea to crack down on them a bit more.

Some recent examples of overly general threads:

Though this is by no means an exhaustive list. To be clear I have nothing in particular against the authors of the threads, I just believe these types of threads cause more harm than good. I think some of the practical dating threads are really quite productive and I do enjoy them, but I don't think anything productive comes from threads like the ones above, and they're very very likely to result in toxicity.

Dating advice needs to be practical, it's so fucking easy to get stuck in your head and discouraging threads which promote this 'getting stuck in your head' would be very beneficial to reducing toxicity. Spending too long in your head is part of how you get inceldom

Edited September 9, 2021 by something_else

[Etherial Cat]

Many good points have been made here . And it's wonderful that Leo is looking into making this subsection more woman friendly. 

I must say that I've already got the feeling this dating section has been improving in the last months or so. Of course, there are still threads, posts and users which are triggering but I feel like this is all going in the right direction.

1 hour ago, somegirl said:

"Hot women in their 20s have lots of sex", "you can't tell me most girls don't do this and that", "girls who go to the clubs do so because of sex, you can't tell me otherwise"... Can you stop with this already? I don't know where you guys grow up in, it must be tough there, but it's not like that everywhere. 

Using such vulgar phrases and insulting names such as "whore, slut" and overgeneralizing is so toxic. I also feel awful when I look at those comments. Not because I identify with it, but because it kind of proves my point (that I try not to believe) that men indeed treat women as non-humans, with no emotions and integrity. 

Can you consider the fact that some girls who CAN have sex with most guys, just DON'T? Crazy, right? I know, I was mind-blown too.

Stop looking at girls as non-human walking vaginas that have no brains and dignity of their own. 

I get often implied that 30 years old women are old hags who should run for the "first beta simp" around now that my cock carrousel days are gone and I "can't lock anymore alphas". 

You just can't win. 

[Applegarden8]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, you are right. I will try to set a better example. I have been guilty of vulgarities.

We do shut down toxic Red Pill and Black Pill threads here. And we will continue to do that.

We also want to make this place more appealing for women and I haven't done the best job of that in the past. I will try to be less biased on that.

But sometimes you do have to roast somebody to make them check themselves, it's not always bad.