Feedback about the Curt Jaimungal interview

[AdamR95]

12 minutes ago, Purple Man said:

Well, several considerations: First, for form to be necessary in order to realise formlessness, it would take formlessness (that is, Godhead, Source) to be unconscious in the absence of form. Besides, "realizing" is a feature of the mind. The mind needs form to realize formlessness. That does not mean that formlessness needs form to exist. If that were the case, there would never be a universe created into existence. 

@Purple Man the form is formlessness

even "formlessness without form" is in a sence a certain form which formlessness can take

Edited September 9, 2021 by AdamR95

[Purple Man]

19 minutes ago, AdamR95 said:

@Purple Man the form is formlessness

even "formlessness without form" is in a sence a certain form which formlessness can take

I´ve heard this "form is formlessness" mantra for as long as I have been into meditation. Maybe my understanding of what it really means is different from other people´s, but to me it is a game word that has no equivalence with my experience. I clearly see as an everyday fact that some totally unmanifest, impersonal, formless Awareness is projecting "form", the manifest, creating it through the very act of perceiving it. Form is nothing but the solidification of perception, the solidification of the energy, of the cosmic "dough". But this energy has no existence on its own. It depends on Source, it depends on its "being perceived",  and Source is formless. That is my experience.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Purple Man

[AdamR95]

12 minutes ago, Purple Man said:

I clearly see as an everyday fact that some totally unmanifest, impersonal, formless Awareness is projecting "form", the manifest, creating it through the very act of perceiving it.

The fact that you can see it, is because it is identical with form. 

we reached limits of language, but "form = formlessness" is pointing to very real insight

Edited September 9, 2021 by AdamR95

[Purple Man]

7 minutes ago, AdamR95 said:

The fact that you can see it, is because it is identical with form. 

we reached limits of language, but "form = formlessness" is pointing to very real insight

Actually I refered to the fact that I see form, and "am" formlessness, which I don´t see, because I am "it". But maybe we´re talking about the same. Words can get tricky, that´s why interviews as the one  Leo did with Curt are fantastic, but rarely lead to a total understanding of what both sides really mean.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Purple Man said:

Leo, if (and I think we agree on this) there is a conscious, immutable, unmanifest substratum (Godhead, to call it somehow) that is our ultimate nature,  beyond any appearence and any possible way of existence

This is still a subtle duality. You posit a substratum vs its contents. This is duality. You are the contents as much as the substratum.

Formlessness is form. You are the dream.

Quote

I understand that the exploration of all possible states of consciousness you speak about is for the sake of enjoying creativity, of enjoying the manifest, the mutable, not to find in those states the ultimate truth, isn´t it?

No, it's not merely for the sake of enjoyment. Some states are awakened states while others are not.

You cannot awaken without a state change. So what you seek is a change in state. So don't poo-poo state change.

All states are Absolute Truth, but not all states are aware of this fact. The default sober human state is not Absolute-aware. The point of spiritual work is to change that.

I am not saying you have to explore all states. This would be impossible anyway since they are infinite in number. But you should care about state since it runs your whole sense of reality and quality of life.

The idea of ignoring states, as they didn't matter, is absurd. That is terrible advice for newbies.

[Purple Man]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is still a subtle duality. You posit a substratum vs its contents. This is duality. You are the contents as much as the substratum.

Formlessness is form. You are the dream.

No, it's not merely for the sake of enjoyment. Some states are awakened states while others are not.

You cannot awaken without a state change. So what you seek is a change in state. So don't poo-poo state change.

All states are Absolute Truth, but not all states are aware of this fact. The default sober human state is not Absolute-aware. The point of spiritual work is to change that.

I am not saying you have to explore all states. This would be impossible anyway since they are infinite in number. But you should care about state since it runs your whole sense of reality and quality of life.

The idea of ignoring states, as they didn't matter, is absurd. That is terrible advice for newbies.

Thank you for the reply. I don´t want to insist, since I know you are a busy guy, but in one of your best videos, you say this:
1/ "I am God sitting inside the fractal . God is the emptiness that sits on the center of the fractal. The fractal is the form. God is the formlessness within which the fractal exists. I am God looking through these eyes. God looking down to Creation." .-Eternity is what is being conscious of this moment right now."

Well, that is exactly my experience. Exactly , basically for a decade. But the problem is, although I  feel Creation as flowing from me, (so "mine" in a sense) I don´t feel it as "I". Yes there is a subtle duality there. But if I were the form, I would not be aware. Form is not aware. I am aware. The formless eternity is aware. I can´t understand how I can share (or transfer) my sense of Self with that which appears within me. I am not trying to challenge you. It is just that it does not corresponde with my experience, and I am very curious on a state where the Universe that appears flowing from/being watched by unmanifest Awareness (my Self) can share the ontological status with unaware forms. 

  2/ You also say: "When the world of form dissapears, existence without content exists." That´s what I feel as my Self, the Godhead. So now I ask you, and this is a very important question for me: My experience of the world is one where pure subjectivity transcends the manifest, but in some way it needs the latter to be self-aware. In your experience of the Godhead, is that "existence without content", or "Consciousness devoid of all form" self-conscious? Is there self-reflection of any kind, any understanding from the Godhead of being so? If that´s the case, how, since there is no objective reflection whatsoever (no thoughts, no sensations, no thing perceived) I mean, even in deep sleep there is total lack of reflection, total lack of self-consciousness. 

Thanks in advance.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Purple Man

[herghly]

amazing interview 10/10 The host is great. Can't imagine this style of interview on jre or aubrey marcus. Very good interview