An unbiased review of Joe Biden

[Terell Kirby]

For those U.S. citizens, what is your (unbiased) review of Joe Biden's job so far in office? Is he meeting, exceeding or not meeting your expectations on a domestic and foreign policy level?

Reason I ask this to hopefully get some constructive discourse going, which is not prevalent in mainstream media and radical right-wing/left-wing media.

I personally feel like COVID-19 would have been a challenge for any President. As far as Afghanistan, I believe leaving was the right direction to go to begin to chip away at America's military-industrial complex which feeds private arms industries that rake in billions.

Feel free to challenge these points, just asking you do it in a respectful way,

[Kyle Gjerseth]

I agree that leaving Afghanistan was a good move. I don't know if I'm more of a nationalist or a globalist but perhaps my opinion will speak for itself. I think there should be something done about the Taliban but I don't know enough about them to make an accurate claim. I like what Leo had to say about terrorists in his "Everyone acts from good intentions" episode. I would love to know more about the Taliban and their political views

[DieFree]

I thought he would govern in an overly cautious way, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised by how bold he is willing to be on domestic issues e.g. expanding the social welfare net. Joe I think responds very well to public opinion so I think he’s reflecting the energy of the democratic base and his aides.

The pullout from Afghanistan was a disaster with extremely bad optics, but I don’t care that much. If anything, it should humble the moronic Washington establishment and end America’s unhelpful, often destructive, attempts at state-building. My only regret is for the Afghans who are ready for freedom and can’t have it because most of “their people” are not.

[Leo Gura]

He's doing pretty good aside from the incompetent Afghanistan withdrawal. That didn't have to be such a messy clusterfuck with better planning.

Thing is, Republicans would not allow a more progressive approach than Biden's. They barely allow Biden wiggle room as it is. So a more progrssive president would not get more done.

[Terell Kirby]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Thing is, Republicans would not allow a more progressive approach than Biden's. They barely allow Biden wiggle room as it is. So a more progrssive president would not get more done.

Hmm..I see. Would a more progressive approach be something along the lines of not only gradually removing troops, but also some kind initiative in place that helps Afghans rise up the spiral / level of cognitive development? Maybe safety nets for women?

Of course Republicans would never let something like this happen lol.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[impulse9]

A lot better than the con artist with an orange tan in my opinion. At least he knows how to lie without it being obvious to a 2 year old. You know, like an actual politician.

[Terell Kirby]

4 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

A lot better than the con artist with an orange tan in my opinion. At least he knows how to lie without it being obvious to a 2 year old. You know, like an actual politician.

Haha this is funny, but it sounds bias.

One thing that really sucks about Trump's administration is that the President was so damn polarizing (for both the left and the right), that people would much rather prefer to focus on either worshipping or trashing him, rather than to talk bipartisan policy / systemic changes.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[diamondpenguin]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

He's doing pretty good aside from the incompetent Afghanistan withdrawal. That didn't have to be such a messy clusterfuck with better planning.

Thing is, Republicans would not allow a more progressive approach than Biden's. They barely allow Biden wiggle room as it is. So a more progrssive president would not get more done.

@Leo Gura its alright leo, we all know that if you were president, you would flip the worlds booty into shape. Turn it into what it should be. Leo the president, leo the gawd. 

[GoobyBooby]

Thousands of Americans are still stuck in Afghanistan. Biden just went on vacation.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

Hmm..I see. Would a more progressive approach be something along the lines of not only gradually removing troops, but also some kind initiative in place that helps Afghans rise up the spiral / level of cognitive development? Maybe safety nets for women?

No, that would not work. You cannot progressivize Afghanistan, that is a fool's errand which we tried for 20 years and it failed.

I mean progressive on domestic issues. I don't see how a progressive could have ended Afghanistan any better than Biden other than to plan it better so there is not a mad scramble at the last minute. It just required better planning to get everyone out ahead of the deadline in an orderly manner.

[Joel3102]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It just required better planning to get everyone out ahead of the deadline in an orderly manner.

The problem is if they started evacuating everyone ahead of time, you're basically communicating to the Afghan people and army that you know it's going to fall to the Taliban soon, and admitting that the ANA was a farce. That would have caused problems in itself and Biden probably would have been criticised for abounding the ANA and breaking down morale. There was no easy way of doing it

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Joel3102 said:

The problem is if they started evacuating everyone ahead of time, you're basically communicating to the Afghan people and army that you know it's going to fall to the Taliban soon, and admitting that the ANA was a farce. That would have caused problems in itself and Biden probably would have been criticised for abounding the ANA and breaking down morale. There was no easy way of doing it

That is a good point.

Seems like they overestimated the American puppet government. That is an understandable blindspot.

[Terell Kirby]

Will the Taliban eventually fall to something more conscious?

[Zega]

@Leo Gura I think it was going to be messy no matter who was in office or how it was carried out. I'm sure it could have been done better, but it could have also been a lot worse. Seems like this administration was taking the "rip off the bandage" approach. 

I just hope we collectively learned something valuable from the whole ordeal. 

[eTorro]

I love Joe Rogan!

[Hardkill]

On 9/7/2021 at 11:03 PM, Leo Gura said:

That is a good point.

Seems like they overestimated the American puppet government. That is an understandable blindspot.

You even implied in your repose to me in the Afghan withdrawal megathread that the chaos during the withdrawal wasn’t really Biden’s fault and hat most people expect the government to operate perfectly when in reality that is such a foolish belief to have. 

Btw, Michael Moore actually said that he was really by impressed by the fact that with the exception of the innocent lives recently taken by the suicide ISIS-K terrorists, including 13 US soldiers, the Biden administration was still able to protect the lives of all of the rest of 2,500 US troops and all of the other 100,000+ people the US military evacuated as well including the countless American civilians who are a part of the US government along with the big groups of Afghan allies. I mentioned this before in another thread, but I don’t think most people recalled Biden actually deciding to help evacaute the massive amount of Afghan allies who wanted to leave. That in and of itself should be considered a bonus accomplishment for Biden.

[fortifyacacia3]

On 9/7/2021 at 7:31 PM, Joel3102 said:

if they started evacuating everyone ahead of time, you're basically communicating to the Afghan people and army that you know it's going to fall to the Taliban soon

Yes! There are many misconceptions surrounding this. 

US civilians who stayed behind are there to help diplomatic or military efforts. Contractors who worked on helicopters, systems administration etc. were fulfilling there job in staying behind despite advisories to leave. People with NGO's stay the worse it gets in order to help. 

An overwhelming majority of equipment belonging to DOD was in fact removed. The equipment being talked about belonged to the national gov. Even though a fall to the Taliban was inevitable it still wouldn't have made sense to remove their only chance, all to avoid leftover equipment which happens at the end of all wars. Much of it was made in the 80's, the Blackhawks being first gens for example. None of which are a threat to the US or militaries in the region. Comparing their new 'made in USA' equipment to what they already had was like pouring a cup of water in to a pool, like Beau says. 

The main thing I see that Biden could have done different was to push for a task force to be set up to delay the fall. By and large it was going to be a mess no matter what. I wouldn't consider the withdrawal incompetent. 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Hardkill said:

You even implied in your repose to me in the Afghan withdrawal megathread that the chaos during the withdrawal wasn’t really Biden’s fault and hat most people expect the government to operate perfectly when in reality that is such a foolish belief to have.

Yeah, but even I was a bit shocked by how poorly they handled the logistics of the withdrawal. Leaving all that military equipment to the Taliban is so wasteful.

[Eren Eeager]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Leaving all that military equipment to the Taliban is so wasteful.

There was a scene in a movie called lord of war where it explains that the cost of transporting used military guns and equipment far exceeds that of making new ones, so they actually leave it, but don't know if that's true tho.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Eren Eeager said:

There was a scene in a movie called lord of war where it explains that the cost of transporting used military guns and equipment far exceeds that of making new ones, so they actually leave it, but don't know if that's true tho.

I think they were just overrun by the Taliban. Those helicopters are expensive as hell. It should be cheaper to transport them back home than build new ones.

But you also have to consider how the business of this works. Defense contractors are happy if the military abandons those vehicles because it just means more orders next year. The incentives are perverse. They like it when expensive equipment is lost.