Curt’s resistance to Truth: TOE podcast

[JayySur]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You will not find God thru anyone's words.

And yet, paradoxically, you will  

[Flyboy]

@Leo Gura You're using a conflation to dodge what I'm saying.  Yes, it's true that the present moment is itself "directly true" in our experience.  But you cannot make ontological claims about the nature of that experience based on conceptual understanding from past experiences in which you remember having an understanding of such a thing.

Your memory of those experiences is happening NOW, and as such is purely conceptual NOW.  To make claims about the ineffable absolute with concepts is nonsense, which is why you simply can't say "it's all imagination."  You can't get around this problem--if it is not your direct experience right now (and I mean the actual knowing of the ineffable), then anything you say about it is mental masturbation.  If you think you "know", you're fooling yourself.  Enlightenment MUST be your moment-to-moment experience, or you simply aren't there because your mind is still fabricating all kinds of delusion right at the level of basic perception.

One concept you love to use but don't really question is this idea of "levels of consciousness".  You are being loose with your definition and using that looseness to justify things that you shouldn't.  Basic consciousness should properly mean "a moment of knowing" of some sensation or thought.  That's it.  You use it interchangeably with "depth of nuance / understanding of context," which is useful for things like Spiral Dynamics but frankly a totally different meaning.  You're using this second meaning when you say "infinite consciousness," which is actually kind of funny because you're actually getting off on the idea of something infinitely conceptual.  This is a trap.  It's the VR simulation of the real enlightenment (which is an illustrative analogy, not a duality).

This is really the whole problem with your work: it is inescapably based on concepts alone.  And the real understanding of what enlightenment IS (and what Reality IS) is therefore lost.

Also, be really careful with how you use the duality defense.  Again, there's a difference between ultimately saying "all dualities collapse" and using that line to eliminate distinctions that expose your errors.  Dualities exist AND don't exist.  At an absolute level, of course, we're all enlightened because there's no difference between enlightenment and non-enlightenment.  At the relative level of your mind, however, you are not "awakened" because somebody told you about nonduality (which is, in a sense, no different than remembering it from an experience because both are concepts).

The reason meditation is different is because it is about unraveling the identity which leads to fabricating distinctions where no distinctions actually exist--and this affects your present experience.  As the illusion is deconstructed, perception stops being clouded and you eventually see what is actually Right Here, Right Now.  As long as any shred of ego/separation exists in your mind-body, you won't have access to this.  I'm sorry man, but you need to do this work if you ever want to actually understand that which is nonconceptual in an ultimate way.  There's a reason ALL the masters tell you psychedelics are "not it", and it's not just ego or lack of sufficient usage.

[Leo Gura]

@Flyboy You don't understand what you're talking about and I am done tryng to persuade you.

[WaveInTheOcean]

@Flyboy 

Awakening isn't an on/off switch, where you either are 1 (awakened) or 0 (asleep). It's an infinite spectrum and you can be more or less awakened to infinite different aspects of reality.

You're seemingly wanting to discuss Leo's path as a way to distract yourself from your own path ? 

Everytime I find myself discussing other people I always try to remember this wise quote of Socrates:

"Strong minds discuss ideas,

average minds discuss events,

weak minds discuss people.” 

God-realization is but just one aspect of the infinitude of awakenings you can have. To rank it as 'the highest / best' realization one can have is of personal opinion; I personally think the "highest" awakening you can have is your own soul's awakening to its purpose here on Earth; and it differs for everyone. Follow your own path. Listen to your heart.

We are all God, everything is IT: to become aware of one owns Godhood and Its omnipotence, omniscience, infinity, etc. is in a sense the easiest and most pointless awakening to have: it's so fucking obvious.

"You're God!" - "Doh, tell me something I don't know!" (masked as: "No, that can't be!").

From a pragmatic standpoint, it's much more interesting to 'unravel' *this dream/maze/hide'n'seek-game* that I, first, created and then, secondly, chose to participate in as a seemingly separate dream-character, willingly forgetting that I created it (as God, for the sake of play); and then try to play it as elequantly as possible.

To speak about the absolute nature of reality in absolute terms, as if it can be communicated in spoken or written language is a rather silly game (regardless, notice I just did it ?).

Absolute Truth isn't communicable. It's an inner game. We can talk poetically, in analogies, about it; and we can point to it. That's all we can do with language.

Relative truths are that: relative. Knowledge as such is therefore also rather relative: its only valuable in the sense that it can be utilized, either externally (science), or internally (emotions, happiness). The external always serves the internal (emotions): science is only a useful practice to do in the sense that it creates benefits for society/humanity at large.

If Leo derives pleasure and meaning from talking about God and swimming around in God-consciousness in his psychedelic trips, then let him. I sometimes find it interesting to hear about his perspectives; at other times, like you, I find it rather pointless. I've begun, this last year, to find his more pragmatic videoes more interesting, as all his non-duality videos' only purpose (beyond his own pleasure deriving from it) is nudging people towards spirituality: 'pointing' them towards it, making them interested, invested in it. I'm deeply invested already; it's an inner game for me now. Hearing about it from the outside too much can be a big distraction.

Of course, stories can also be exciting aesthetically, but I'd often rather read poetry about non-duality, than hear -- at times clumsy, other times brilliant -- logical arguments for it.

"Looking at a sunset, just for a second, you forget your separateness: you are the sunset. That is the moment when you feel the beauty of it.

But the moment you say that it is a beautiful sunset, you are no longer feeling it; you have come back to your separate, enclosed entity of the ego. Now the mind is speaking.

And this is one of the mysteries: that the mind can speak, and knows nothing; and the heart knows everything, and cannot speak.

Perhaps to know too much makes it difficult to speak; the mind knows so little, it is possible for it to speak."

- Osho

Spread the Love. But first and foremost learn to love yourself. And in order to do that, you first have to *know* yourself. ... And you come to know yourself through combining action -- living life; experience -- with self-reflection (meditation, contemplation, psychedelics comes to mind) & studying (reading, listening; absorbing wisdom and practical advice from the wise, old motherfuckers that have lived -- and still live -- through human history and who have failed, and thus learned, countless times).

Edited September 11, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Spiral Wizard]

@Leo Gura is your God-realization also imaginary?

[JayySur]

57 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

@Leo Gura is your God-realization also imaginary?

Lol, obviously. 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

@Leo Gura is your God-realization also imaginary?

God is the one imagining things.

So you cannot escape God here with your logic. In the end someone is always imagining something. That is God.

[Blackhawk]

@Leo Gura What the heck.. You don't eat any food which is sold wrapped in plastic? (You said in the video that bacon wrapped in plastic is bad.)

Almost all food is sold wrapped in plastic. I would starve to death in 2 weeks if I would exclude all such food.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

@Leo Gura What the heck.. You don't eat any food which is sold wrapped in plastic?

No, that's not what I said.

From what I remember microwavable bacon especially comes in some kind of weird plastic wrap. I could be wrong. I have not eaten it in 20 years.

Someone please mail Curt a package of microwavable bacon

[Blackhawk]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

No, that's not what I said.

From what I remember microwavable bacon especially comes in some kind of weird plastic wrap. I could be wrong. I have not eaten it in 20 years.

Yeah but plastic is plastic. How can the plastic on microwavable bacon be more weird than other plastic.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Yeah but plastic is plastic. How can the plastic on microwavable bacon be more weird than other plastic.

From what I remember you have to microwave the bacon in the plastic package. At least that's how it used to be in my childhood. I don't know how they do it nowadays. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it works.

Regardless, that will be the lowest quality bacon on the planet. You might as well be eating those bacon strips for dogs.

[Loba]

10 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

@Leo Gura What the heck.. You don't eat any food which is sold wrapped in plastic? (You said in the video that bacon wrapped in plastic is bad.)

Almost all food is sold wrapped in plastic. I would starve to death in 2 weeks if I would exclude all such food.

I was wondering that, too.  I was thinking, "How does he buy chickens then?  What do they come in, like a paper bag?  Tin foil?  Cardboard box."

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Loba

[Blackhawk]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From what I remember you have to microwave the bacon in the plastic package. At least that's how it used to be in my childhood. I don't know how they do it nowadays. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it works.

Regardless, that will be the lowest quality bacon on the planet. You might as well be eating those bacon strips for dogs.

I see.

Well there is plastic which is safe to microwave.

But of course.. Maybe you don't trust it when they say that it's safe.

But I do trust it that "microwavable plastic" is safe.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Leo Gura]

@Loba My chickens float on magnets

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Blackhawk said:

I see.

Well there is plastic which is safe to microwave.

But of course.. Maybe you don't trust it when they say that it's safe.

But I do trust it that "microwavable plastic" is safe.

I would certainly not trust any plastic to be microwave safe.

[Blackhawk]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I would certainly not trust any plastic to be microwave safe.

There's scientists who have investigated that stuff.

Scientists have for example also investigated the covid 19 vaccines..

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

There's scientists who have investigated that stuff.

[Blackhawk]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Ok but if you don't trust science, then why do you trust them about the covid-19 vaccines? I'm sure you trust science about more things too.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Ok but if you don't trust science, then why do you trust them about the covid-19 vaccines? I'm sure you trust science about more things too.

It's called keen discernment. AKA, wisdom.

[Blackhawk]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's called keen discernment. AKA, wisdom.

Can you at least admit the possibility that maybe "microwave-safe plastic" is safe?

I can admit that maybe it's not safe. But I think it probably is.

So my idea is that maybe we can find some common ground on the "maybe".

Edited September 11, 2021 by Blackhawk