God loves our biases?

[aurum]

6 hours ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Leo Gura Yes, but there's another perspective often articulated by saints and gurus that there is some sort of objective Goodness out there called Love that's can guide our actions, bypassing the human ego. Almost like any action can be guided by Love or Fear, and if we choose Love it's because we're acting on behalf of God's will. I see this as different than the Stage Yellow win-win-win stuff, though some overlap perhaps. And I'm not sure if it's distinctly about survival, as often the examples used are doing something that risks survival for the sake of Love. Is this just because it's pointing to the survival of the human species (and/or nature), or is there actually some objective Goodness out there that our hearts can feel and be guided by?

I suspect many of these pointers are trying to get to the same thing. But it gets convoluted when you try and put it in words.

Omni win-win-win scenarios are essentially a pointer to include more as your self. Which is the same thing as moving into higher degrees of Love. The more you include as you, the greater your Love.

At stage yellow this Love is not going to be perfect, but it will be expanded from the previous stages.

And of course even in the best omni win-win-win scenario, it may still have some negative consequences. Just by me being alive, something has to die. That doesn’t seem very win-win at the surface. But overall we can move more and more towards the betterment of the whole.

[UnbornTao]

Buddha wanted to transcend life and death. That was his main focus. 

The suffering part? I mean… he could have been motivated to pursue awakening by suffering, but freedom from life and death is, I’d say, was his real “purpose”.

Of course it turns out that in order to transcend something you msut first get deeply conscious of what that is.

But really, with complete awakening, focusing on suffering sounds like empathy for other people so that they can focus on pragmatic matters, et al.

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Leo Gura Yes, but there's another perspective often articulated by saints and gurus that there is some sort of objective Goodness out there called Love that's can guide our actions, bypassing the human ego. Almost like any action can be guided by Love or Fear, and if we choose Love it's because we're acting on behalf of God's will.

Yes, of course. All this means is surrendering ego to God. The more ego is surrendered the more God acts through you with less impurity. If ego is totally gone, God can take over your body and act flawlessly. But this doesn't guarantee your body will survive.

Quote

I see this as different than the Stage Yellow win-win-win stuff, though some overlap perhaps. And I'm not sure if it's distinctly about survival, as often the examples used are doing something that risks survival for the sake of Love. Is this just because it's pointing to the survival of the human species (and/or nature), or is there actually some objective Goodness out there that our hearts can feel and be guided by?

If God was to fully take over control of your mind and body, all your actions would be in accordance with the highest possible intelligence and love that your mind and body are capable of. You would max yourself out as a human organism. You would become a super-conductor of God's Will on Earth. You could literally be God in human form.

Of course the biographical self would be completely annihilated at this point.

[tuckerwphotography]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, of course. All this means is surrendering ego to God. The more ego is surrendered the more God acts through you with less impurity. If ego is totally gone, God can take over your body and act flawlessly. But this doesn't guarantee your body will survive.

If God was to fully take over control of your mind and body, all your actions would be in accordance with the highest possible intelligence and love that your mind and body are capable of. You would max yourself out as a human organism. You would become a super-conductor of God's Will on Earth. You could literally be God in human form.

Of course the biographical self would be completely annihilated at this point.

@Leo Gura I get what you're saying and don't mean to be parsing words, but isn't it also true to say that my limited ego form is also God's infinite intelligence acting in accordance with God's will? If Tucker does not exist beyond a thought construct, then isn't God already in full control of my life and creating me from a place of total Love? 

So yes, as God allows Tucker's ego to further dissolve, more Love can be expressed through this vessel, but in reality it was all infinite Love all along?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

but isn't it also true to say that my limited ego form is also God's infinite intelligence acting in accordance with God's will?

Yes, but it's being corrupted by the ego.

[Ilan]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, of course. All this means is surrendering ego to God. The more ego is surrendered the more God acts through you with less impurity. If ego is totally gone, God can take over your body and act flawlessly. But this doesn't guarantee your body will survive.

If God was to fully take over control of your mind and body, all your actions would be in accordance with the highest possible intelligence and love that your mind and body are capable of. You would max yourself out as a human organism. You would become a super-conductor of God's Will on Earth. You could literally be God in human form.

Of course the biographical self would be completely annihilated at this point.

Love is blind

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Ilan said:

Love is blind

Devilry is blinder.

[Mason Riggle]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but it's being corrupted by the ego.

^which is also God's infinite Intelligence. 

[mandyjw]

You're confusing biases with preferences. In normal language, that's fine, but for the sake of understanding it helps to differentiate the two. True biases cause suffering, the suffering is the indication or guidance that something is off through feeling. So it's like a parent that pulls a child away from sticking something in an outlet. The parent loves the child and wants the child to explore but they know that they must intervene in that case. This is loving intervention of guidance through feeling. When we ignore negative emotion and persist with what we are thinking or doing anyway, usually because we don't understand the negative emotion, we suffer. Preferences and choices are not biases because they don't cause suffering. If you are attracted to color blue, that's not a bias. If you go on a crusade to rid the world of everything orange, people who love orange be damned, that's like sticking a fork in the outlet. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by mandyjw

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

^which is also God's infinite Intelligence. 

But that ego of yours does not have an infinite IQ. It does dumb things all the time. And the more ego you have the more dumb things you do.

14 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Preferences and choices are not biases because they don't cause suffering.

A) Suffering is already a bias. It is the mother of all biases.

B) Preferences and choices cause suffering. The whole point of making a choice is to minimize suffering, otherwise no choice would be necessary. Making choices is all about survival.

Quote

If you are attracted to color blue, that's not a bias.

That certainly is a bias. And the only reason any organism is attracted to or repelled by anything is survival of one kind or another. Survival is not dumb. It's an incredibly sophisticated and subtle thing. Even the colors you like make a difference to your survival. Colors tell you what you should and shouldn't eat, what can kill you, who to have sex with, etc.

[Mason Riggle]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

But that ego of yours does not have an infinite IQ. It does dumb things all the time. And the more ego you have the more dumb things you do.

^which is also God's infinite Intelligence

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

^which is also God's infinite Intelligence

God can act dumb. But that is not its highest capacity.

You can crawl on your belly to the grocery store. But you can also walk.

The point is to realize you've been crawling on your belly your whole life.

[gettoefl]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God can act dumb. But that is not its highest capacity.

You can crawl on your belly to the grocery store. But you can also walk.

The point is to realize you've been crawling on your belly your whole life.

ultimately god wants his charges to be more god-like

this is called evolution or as the soul band the o'jays termed it, the Love Train

[mandyjw]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A) Suffering is already a bias. It is the mother of all biases.

B) Preferences and choices cause suffering. The whole point of making a choice is to minimize suffering, otherwise no choice would be necessary. Making choices is all about survival.

You are looking at everything through a lens of survival as if there is an outside God outside that made you. You are the creator, you are literally creating this, that's what you point at when you tell people they are imagining it, creating it, same thing. So it's not a bias to survival, it's creation. There's no dire purpose to this for survival, it's for our pleasure and artistic expression. Creation. Suffering is the indicator that you are creating against yourself. 

If someone gives you a choice between a rotten banana and a new iPhone you'd say there's "no choice". What happens when you realize that your choices don't matter because you are creating them, is that suddenly there's an obvious strong resonance with what you want, that makes choices seem as if it's "no choice." The suffering comes from the belief that I must make the RIGHT choice OR I will suffer. There are no right choices. This is art. No rules. Then paradoxically, the choice made out of love becomes hyper clear. So clear it's not even a choice. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by mandyjw

[Mason Riggle]

Humans can act dumb.. everything 'God does' is infinitely Intelligent, even if it doesn't make sense to your ego.  

Edited September 9, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, mandyjw said:

If someone gives you a choice between a rotten banana and a new iPhone you'd say there's "no choice"

That's precisely because your survival values the iphone so much higher. All value is survival and bias.

You are not getting how deep survival and bias goes.

Your survival runs so deep that most things are not even a choice because if you chose them you'd be dead. Death is your ultimate bias that spawns all the other biases.

If you want to see what unbias looks like, study a rock. The rock has no biases. The rock makes no choices. The rock does not do art and it does not like blue more than anything else. Why? Because it isn't surviving.

[mandyjw]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's precisely because your survival values the iphone so much higher. All value is survival and bias.

You are not getting how deep survival and bias goes.

Your survival runs so deep that most things are not even a choice because if you chose them you'd be dead. Death is your ultimate bias that spawns all the other biases.

If you want to see what unbias looks like, study a rock. The rock has no biases. The rock makes no choices. The rock does not do art and it does not like blue more than anything else. Why? Because it isn't surviving.

Sorry if I'm projecting, (it's more fun to project on Leo than a rock) but you make survival sound so dirty and wrong and shameful and sinful all the time. You talk about it just like the Bible talks about "the flesh" and transcending the flesh. 

I've done stuff that seemed totally to fly in the face of survival, told people the truth, gone into a career that didn't have a high chance of paying off, etc. I've found that when I follow joy, inspiration and love, it's a much better form of "survival" than doing what I logically think will be best for survival. Not that I don't consider that as well. However, ultimately the Universe got my back. People die of preventable disease from chronic stress from trying to survive, trying to figure everything out and get ahead of next guy. There is a transcendent grace in survival, when it's done aligned with Love. Survival works best when we fly in the face of it and go for Love rather than what we think is gonna work out for us. 

[aurum]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you want to see what unbias looks like, study a rock. The rock has no biases. The rock makes no choices. The rock does not do art and it does not like blue more than anything else. Why? Because it isn't surviving.

New agers who believe crystals are alive would disagree with you 

[mandyjw]

Crystals, rocks. I wouldn't survive without the right minerals. Am I minerals, water, am I a body? Am I? What is surviving actually? 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

you make survival sound so dirty and wrong and shameful and sinful all the time. You talk about it just like the Bible talks about "the flesh" and transcending the flesh.

Well, survival is devilry. It's not possible to survive without murdering something.

Of course devilry is part of God.