Is it accurate to look at another person and think "I'm imagining them"

[Hello from Russia]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can manipulate reality. That's what ego is for. Ego is magic too.

Can you expand on that a little bit? In your videos you're very often demonizing the notion of manipulation, telling almost that any manipulation is bad by default and you'll get "punished" eventually by manipulating through karmic dynamics. Or at least it feels this way. Do you mean mostly "bad" kind of manipulations are bad in these talks? Cause otherwise that basically implies that to simply to live - is automatically to be "bad' (The devil) and there is no escaping it.

Especially life purpose type of stuff seems very confusing because in any powerful enough life purpose, you're pretty much obligated to manipulate the hell of a damn everything around you, though you might be doing all that with good intentions and a lot of love in your heart

[Scholar]

On 6.9.2021 at 8:56 PM, Flowerfaeiry said:

or is that just the ego mind saying that? Do you have to sort of get past the layers of deception in order to say that accurately or can I essentially walk around thinking about how I am imagining all this stuff? 

No. No. No.

 

Anything you could possibly think will always be only that, thinking. When you think to yourself "Reality is imagined", you have created delusion if you cannot see clearly the nature of what has happend. All you did when you said "Realtiy is imagined", is that you created a concept, not much different from the concept of a unicorn.

This is what you must work on first before you continue with anything. As long as you cannot see the conceptual for what it is, you will forever be trapped in it. You will look at it as the Ground of Being, when Being is Groundless.

 

When you recognize the Groundless Ground, you will not need to say anything about it. You will not need to understand it is imagination, as illusion, as unrealness. Because you will recognize that all of these things are forms in and of themselves, forms that emerged from the Groundless Ground.

 

When Leo says Imagination, he does not mean imagination. He means:

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Scholar said:

When Leo says Imagination, he does not mean imagination. He means:

Imagination is not hard to understand.

Look at your body right now. It is imaginary. It's so simple. Every physical object you see is imaginary. You are dreaming. You are hallucinating the physical.

5 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Can you expand on that a little bit? In your videos you're very often demonizing the notion of manipulation, telling almost that any manipulation is bad by default and you'll get "punished" eventually by manipulating through karmic dynamics. Or at least it feels this way. Do you mean mostly "bad" kind of manipulations are bad in these talks? Cause otherwise that basically implies that to simply to live - is automatically to be "bad' (The devil) and there is no escaping it.

Especially life purpose type of stuff seems very confusing because in any powerful enough life purpose, you're pretty much obligated to manipulate the hell of a damn everything around you, though you might be doing all that with good intentions and a lot of love in your heart

Look man, you cannot stay alive without manipulation. Life is constant manipulation to stay alive. Even if you are fully enlightened.

When I speak down about manipluation the point is that you do a lot of excessive manipulation which could be dropped or changed into a higher quality manipulation.

You are not ever going to stop manipulating. But you can improve how you manipulate. You can make your manipulations very conscious, intelligent, loving, and artful.

[Scholar]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagination is not hard to understand.

Look at your body right now. It is imaginary. It's so simple. Every physical object you see is imaginary. You are dreaming. You are hallucinating the physical.

It is simple because it is clear, when it is not clear it is not simple, because it isn't seen.

[yetineti]

I think there are different layers to imagination.

Its a mindfuck and may provide insight to know people and material things are imaginary - and you may find a niche way to make use of the generally - but I’d say it’s more important not to become conscious that you are imagining, but how.

How do you imagine people? Why don’t you imagine your dad like every other boy? Why do imagine you or your friends are above one another? Why don’t you imagine people are a little nicer to you?

Just examples.

It does bend my mind to know it’s all imagined - but it’s not really serving me to consider another person vanishing out of materialism or warping in some twisted sense in the ultimate mind of god. 

Of course, I think such things have to be considered.

Such as, if reality is infinite, what is stopping me for suddenly being teleporting to another realm instantly where I’m tortured, but fed well?

But I’ll deal with that, when and if. Generally it hasn’t happened.

Same goes for people. Sure, they are imagined - and a lot of possible things could occur - but also - everyone is they way they have always been. So who cares if that’s imagination or not?

Edited September 10, 2021 by mw711

[Matthew85]

On 9/8/2021 at 0:15 AM, Leo Gura said:

So the technical answer to your question is: MAGIC

But you don't like that answer because the ego cannot use it.

@Leo Gura I have always loved magic since I was a child. Discovering REAL MAGIC is a lot more exciting though. Where we may disagree is I believe we can achieve higher levels of mastery in any area of life. You often use the excellent analogy of there being no difference between sleeping and waking realties. Well, with the right knowledge, skills and practice someone can learn to become lucid in their dreams and have a lot more conscious control over shaping and molding their experiences. That would apply to our waking dream as well. If you end up exploring this topic more during your expanded states of consciousness, I would love to hear what you discover. Although, you may have many other topics that are more of a priority to you. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Matthew85

[The0Self]

There’s no one separate from all there is to imagine it. It’s just chaotic timelessness appearing orderly time-bound.

This is unimaginable.

❤️ 
 

In fact it’s not even that. There is no case-closed. That would only be a story. There’s just all there is. And not even that.

Edited September 12, 2021 by The0Self

[tlowedajuicemayne]

@Flowerfaeiry Its good to try to wrap your mind around this concept and to attempt to see the world that way but you have to be honest with yourself simultaneously. If you see a tree and to you it is just a tree, you have to accept that. To see a tree and then to throw on top of that- I am imagining that tree, is delusion. When you realize that you are imagining the tree, there will be no thought or explaination needed. You will simply be imagining the tree. 

 

Be very careful not to take ideas and try to look through them like lenses at the world. This is what religion does. Until it is in your direct experinece, doubt it. 

[somegirl]

I just notice this ongoing confusing, and at times, irritating, narrative and clever push-pull attitude towards "us striving to be conscious creators of our reality". It's like "you aren't, but also, you are" (even though it's been suggested multiple times throughout multiple episodes that everything is one giant SINGULAR MIND)

And for a long time I sensed this distance and disassociation towards stuff of that nature altogether. Which irks me because I can deny the existance and truthfulness of, or diassociate with the fact that gravity exists, all I want, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is not real lol. Oh, but "I don't understand it". Right.

I just don't care. I will just come to conclusions on my own and based on my own life experiences and not let anybody tell me what is or isn't true. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by somegirl

[YogiCosmos]

@Flowerfaeiry

When we perceive another person, we are perceiving our interpretation of them. They are shaped by our personal lens - our beliefs, experiences, biases, and so forth. As Rumi beautifully expressed, "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."

However, it's crucial to note that this doesn't imply the other person isn't real or only exists in your mind. They have their own consciousness, experiences, and self-awareness.

Yet, we are all facets of the same consciousness expressing and experiencing itself. From this perspective, it is true that the perceived separation between 'me' and 'other' is an illusion created by the mind. Yet, this imagining does not diminish the authenticity of their existence as individuals with their own experiences and consciousness. It only highlights the subjective nature of our perception.

On the practical side, it's useful to understand that while our inner experience significantly shapes our perception of outer reality, ignoring the collective consensus can lead to discord. For instance, imagining we can fly doesn't grant us the ability to sprout wings. So, there's a fine balance in understanding these profound truths and applying them wisely in our lives.

[Razard86]

28 minutes ago, somegirl said:

I just notice this ongoing confusing, and at times, irritating, narrative and clever push-pull attitude towards "us striving to be conscious creators of our reality". It's like "you aren't, but also, you are" (even though it's been suggested multiple times throughout multiple episodes that everything is one giant SINGULAR MIND)

And for a long time I sensed this distance and disassociation towards stuff of that nature altogether. Which irks me because I can deny the existance and truthfulness of, or diassociate with the fact that gravity exists, all I want, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is not real lol. Oh, but "I don't understand it". Right.

I just don't care. I will just come to conclusions on my own and based on my own life experiences and not let anybody tell me what is or isn't true. 

If ONLY that were absolutely true. If 10 doctors tell you, that you have cancer....will you agree with them?

[An young being]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

If ONLY that were absolutely true. If 10 doctors tell you, that you have cancer....will you agree with them?

I would, guaranteed that they have a degree.

[Arthogaan]

5 hours ago, YogiCosmos said:

They have their own consciousness, experiences, and self-awareness.

And how do you know that? You can never know that. Any idea of them having their own experience is happening inside your imagination.

[Rafael Thundercat]

Notice, you assume "another" person, assume that is an "I" "looking" at " them" and you are asking if just thinking that is imagination makes it imagination. 

In a dream you see thinks moving, you can even have a dream yoi drive a car and see people walking around, and all movement while you are static on bed. Yoi wake up and keep moving and seeing interacting with moving "others".

In your dream do you assume you are interacting with others made of cells,atoms etc..? 

When you wake up you assume you wake up in the true reality in a planet where you was born years ago and can kind of remember all the story that brougth you to this exact moment 

But notice, all this is concept and imagination.

You go to have your breakfast to feed your cells so you keep living the same way you was crazy for mommy milk to keep cells reproducing. All this and you actually never saw a single cell death or alive. Even if you lost a limb you say the limb is death now and not part of you anymore  that is "another" limb. Looking to other you can infere they are a collection of limbs that are alive if moving and death if not moving. In a dream do you apply the same ratinality?

What are people in your dreams made of? And if you become lucid in your dream and look to your hand, what is your hand made of? Now look to your hand and answer with truth: What is this?

 

[OBEler]

On 9.9.2021 at 0:05 PM, Leo Gura said:

he Universe is working to maximize LOVE for all. But that doesn't mean your ego will get its selfish way.

@Leo GuraHow does the universe consider all, if just me and my solipsistic bubble in Front of me exist and thats the only thing in the whole universe?

Ok you can day my Handy Display is infinite so in my handy screen is the Earth with 8.000 billion people. But at this point I cannot grasp anymore because it's outside my finite perspective and I am not conscious of them. I thought what I in my currently finite consciousness state am not consciousness of does not exist. It doesnt make sense 

Edited October 16, 2023 by OBEler

[Rafael Thundercat]

Also, you can think you imagine others as much as you wish, but in the end of the story you still close you car and house doors and get worried if you hear steps outside you house in the middle of the nigth. I had recently a dream where a guy was around my house and I was suspectimg of him, thinking he was a robber or something. End up that in the dream he was a Reagge musician wishing to share some songs with me. But notice. The fear of Other was still there and the relief that that other was not representing a threat. 

Oh Survival, this never ending story.

[somegirl]

7 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Leo GuraHow does the universe consider all, if just me and my solipsistic bubble in Front of me exist and thats the only thing in the whole universe

And because of this and many other contradicting statements ("you are the only being that exists" but also some Universe is working towards maximizing love for "others" (others?)) I just won't even continue listening. And why is it bad to have a human ego? Wtf? Why then even have this human experience if you are judged for wanting certain things or told that "you won't get your way because you are selfish". Lol. Okay? Show me a human who isn't? 

If you weren't selfish you would literally die in this human form. You wouldn't care about surviving.

It's just a matter of not being overly selfish. 

I just deeply believe some truths are purposely not being spoken out, or are tiptoing around it, because some people would be able to abuse it if they found out.

Edited October 16, 2023 by somegirl

[Razard86]

On 10/16/2023 at 4:20 AM, OBEler said:

@Leo GuraHow does the universe consider all, if just me and my solipsistic bubble in Front of me exist and thats the only thing in the whole universe?

Ok you can day my Handy Display is infinite so in my handy screen is the Earth with 8.000 billion people. But at this point I cannot grasp anymore because it's outside my finite perspective and I am not conscious of them. I thought what I in my currently finite consciousness state am not consciousness of does not exist. It doesnt make sense 

It's not complicated. I've already explained it on this forum how it works. 

1. Since the universe is one, any perspective the universe takes becomes the ABSOLUTE!!! The universe is a mind a dream, notice that when you go to sleep your body disappears. This means your body is INSIDE you not the other way around. Close your eyes, notice there is a black screen, open it notice there is a screen with light and objects. So your body is just part of the scenery, no different than anything else. 

Now close your eyes again and imagine walking down the street, notice it can appear like you are your body....now also notice that in this dream your point of view is ABSOLUTE. Nothing can happen outside of you...because...you are all there is.

2. Now here is for the mind fuck. That same imagination you just used to imagine all that is the same power that spawned and is running everything. At a certain level of consciousness if you did imagined that same scenario I just told you to do for an example...it would spawn that and it would be REAL!!! Your human level imagination is equal to reality level imagination you just powered down the appearance so it cannot fool you. 

3. Now this same level of imagination at its highest level of awareness is INFINITELY intelligent and it creates a dream with societies, governments, police, laws, diseases, wars, etc. It powers your thoughts and perspective and creates the realistic life story you call your current life.

4. Then you say...but what about Leo's Infinity of Gods video? That's true too. But how? Because Leo imagined that. So here is the kicker. You as an ego, whatever you decide to imagine will become true for you in your experience. Why? Because reality is INFINITE. Your ability to experience Infinity is dictated by bias. If you close your mind off to a possibility then you decrease your chances of experiencing it. This is really the only reason some people awaken and some don't. That which makes you uncomfortable and triggers you is your bias. 

Now what Leo says about the ego not getting what it wants, is both true and false. If you pay attention to your life you do get what you want, it just doesn't always fall in order with the timing or quantity that you desire. Life operates like an investment bank account, whatever you put your attention on and focus on will eventually be given to you according to your ability and the timing and structure of the time period/environment you operate in.  But you will only be able to perceive that at the right level of Consciousness. 

I became aware that the Universe is absolutely fair at all times. It is just our ego masks our ability to understand this. You only complain because God is doing to you what Stephen King does in his award-winning stories. In his own words  "Put interesting characters in difficult situations and write to find out what happens.” So you are God putting the interesting character that is you in difficult situations and in God's case for the purpose of experiencing what happens.

This is why I say if you are not aware of how life is a miracle with a perfect design then you are not awake. To awaken is to exit the character perspective and to take on the creator perspective. God is a perfect creator, because only God is smart enough to make its imagination...REAL. REAL is immersion, look how hard it is for you to break the immersion!! Life is the greatest movie because you as God struggle to break out of character!!! LOL.

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Razard86

[Yimpa]

The highest forms of Love does not merely imagine. It imagines that it is imagining.

So selfless it accepts all aspects of itself. So selfish it allows all selfishness to express itself.

So omniscient that it needs not to know the difference.